Britain's fares complexity - a tourist's viewpoint

[PhilipW]

I enclose a viewpoint that I saw elsewhere

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I am from Canada, and 4 of us will be visiting England in August. I have spent hours on the Internet trying to figure out a way to get from London to Liverpool by train without re-mortgaging the house. We in North America have always envied Europe's public transportation system, particularly its rail networks, but I was absolutely frustrated by both the complexity of trying to book a ticket and the huge variation in the price of a ticket to the same destination. We might just decide to forgo the side trip and stay in London. I am sure that happens a lot with tourists who face the same logistical nightmares dealing with an unfamiliar system, and as a consequence a lot of cities will lose a lot of tourist dollars.
--

I have to say that I sympathize with him. The point is well made.

Even as a British citizen and someone who understands the ticketing system, it can take me quite a while sometimes to sort out a fare. Even when buying from a ticket machine, there is always a 10 second pause while I take in all the options listed. There often are 4 or 5 differernt choices for a Return all with names only familar to those with some railway knowledge.

Sad really.

 

[dylan_w]

This isn't as unique to the UK as is often said! On a recent trip to Milan I used a machine to purchase a ticket to Como - I was presented with a range of options for different discounts and routes. I was glad I had looked into it before going on holiday or I may have had difficulty!

Although I understand we can't reply to the original poster as this comment was taken from another forum, I would have recommended that the person bought a BritRail pass (effectively a discounted all-line rover only available to non-EU residents). A 3 day pass would have set him/her back 199 USD (about £120). An England only pass (which would have allowed the visitor to make the journey to Liverpool and given them the flexibility maybe explore a bit more of the country) would only cost £96 and allow two more long distance trips to be made.

I suppose if a trip to London and nothing else is required just the cheapest return fare will do though!

 

[EWS 58038]

I just love the Dutch system.

1 fare.... thats it. And after 9Am you can get a 40% discount on your railcard. With a maximum fare of 38,50 a day (Network day ticket without reduction and 30,50 with 40% off)

But those were the prices 3 years ago when I bought my last train ticket. Since then I have a staff ticket which is valid on the whole network for 8,50 a month . Combined to tht one I have a FIP ticket, to gain 50% discount on ALL fares in Europe, And for the UK I can opt for a maximum of 16 days of "free travel" which is charged at 5 euro's a day on my salary.... what a great value that is... London to Glasgow and back for 5 euro's.... NO ADVANCE BOOKING or whatsoever.

And the BritRailpass is valid just for everyone in or outside the EU... just not for UK residents.

 

[me123]

The complexity, of course, will be enhanced when you go abroad. Especially when you take into account that they'll have to change currencies.

My main problem with the ticketing system is that the machines won't always automatically show the cheapest fare. I remember buying a Whifflet to Edinburgh fare. It came up at £16, which surprised me. I had done my research beforehand, and finally found a £14.50 NOT GLASGOW fare. Had I not known that that was there, I would have been overcharged. Presumably, the machine was selling the cheapest ticket for that time (an Any Permitted), but it wasn't the cheapest for my journey. In Scotland, with a much smaller network, these are thankfully much rarer than elsewhere. I had to do the same in Leeds-Sheffield, just to get a NOT DONCASTER ticket.

We are used to the rail fares model, but I do find air fares just as confusing, albeit without the routeing issues. The Advance Purchase model, as people begin to realise how to work the system for themselves, is beginning to destroy the network whilst people who turn up on the day pay several times more and aren't even guaranteed a seat.

The thing I don't understand is that other countries can run cheaper trains and still make a profit, and the networks aren't falling to pieces, the rolling stock is generally decent and the trains are frequent and reliable.

 

[jon0844]

My parents recently bought a First class ticket by mistake on a TVM (fortunately not a massive price difference as it was a single King's Cross to Potters Bar) having seen it at the top and (amusingly!) seeing 'First' and assuming it was a ticket relating to using First Capital Connect.

I do think the machines are cheeky for putting first class tickets (even season tickets) first and keeping the cheapest tickets well down the screen - although working your way up from the bottom may be good advice.

 

[philjo]

The other thing about the machines is that they tend not to sell the off-peak tickets until 0930 when they are valid, even if the train you want to catch is the 0931, so you may inadvertently buy an anytime ticket when you don't need to.
the staff at the ticket office at our station will sell off-peak tickets after the last peak-hour train has left at 0908.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My parents recently bought a First class ticket by mistake on a TVM (fortunately not a massive price difference as it was a single King's Cross to Potters Bar) having seen it at the top and (amusingly!) seeing 'First' and assuming it was a ticket relating to using First Capital Connect.

I do think the machines are cheeky for putting first class tickets (even season tickets) first and keeping the cheapest tickets well down the screen - although working your way up from the bottom may be good advice.

I hope they travelled on a 365 to make it worth it & not end up on a 313 ...!

 

[LondonLarry]

My parents recently bought a First class ticket by mistake on a TVM (fortunately not a massive price difference as it was a single King's Cross to Potters Bar) having seen it at the top and (amusingly!) seeing 'First' and assuming it was a ticket relating to using First Capital Connect.

I do think the machines are cheeky for putting first class tickets (even season tickets) first and keeping the cheapest tickets well down the screen - although working your way up from the bottom may be good advice.

I think that's down to the TOC to specify the order of tickets on the screen.

It is confusing to those who don't do a bit of research before hand. If you've never made the journey before, you're not likely to know the difference between tickets routed 'Any Permitted', 'Not ???', '??? Trains only' etc... And fares simplification hasn't made that much of a difference either!

 

[jopsuk]

Oh crikey, First First tickets...

 

[LondonLarry]

aka FCFCC tickets....

 

[Failed Unit]

Oh crikey, First First tickets...

I remember when first started off an great eastern, passengers got confused when first was on the side of every coach. The were wondering where they should sit for standard

 

[philjo]

Oh crikey, First First tickets...

before the tickets were renamed last year, didn't FGW have some advanced tickets called "first Minute" which were actually for standard class (the 1st class version was something like First minute 1st) ???