Britain in the EU

[SS4]

It may become a necessity for some countries to drop the Euro, for fear of bringing the whole pack of cards collapsing down. That would be the very definition of a backward step I can tell you!

Agreed. It would be interesting to see if the PIIGS would default or simply inflate the debt away if they dropped the Euro
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It appears Gordon Brown may have done something right.

Ssh, you're not allowed to say that - Brown is the devil reincarnate responsible for all evil in the UK today [/sarcasm]

 

[Ferret]

SS4 - I can't see how Greece can avoid defaulting whether they are in or out of the Euro! Their economy appears to be a basket-case.

You're right about Brown - his greatest achievement was stopping Blair taking us into the Euro. Well done that man!

 

[OxtedL]

SS4 - I can't see how Greece can avoid defaulting whether they are in or out of the Euro! Their economy appears to be a basket-case.

Greece has many problems. One of which is that no-one pays taxes. And those that did are now paying for it. Highly ironic.

Anyhoo, thinking about it, only Labour could have really made the decision about the Euro. Tories wouldn't have bothered. And Lib Dems...! (laughs at the thought of them having any muscle in the govern...oh)

 

[Zoe]

Can you imagine an "Irish Dollar"? I doubt they would opt/be allowed to opt for GB£.

Considering the history of Ireland it is very unlikely they would opt very British currency even if they were allowed. If Ireland did leave the Euro though, why not just go back to Irish pounds?

 

[OxtedL]

Considering the history of Ireland it is very unlikely they would opt very British currency even if they were allowed. If Ireland did leave the Euro though, why not just go back to Irish pounds?

That's an interesting point...I'm not sure how Anglicised (ie controversial) that would be.

 

[junglejames]

SS4 - I can't see how Greece can avoid defaulting whether they are in or out of the Euro! Their economy appears to be a basket-case.

You're right about Brown - his greatest achievement was stopping Blair taking us into the Euro. Well done that man!

Brown has his faults, and he wasnt a strong PM, but he knew it was wrong to enter the Euro. I will always be extremely grateful to him for that reason. If i ever met the guy, the first thing id do is thank him for sticking to his guns, and showing Blair the way to go on this front.
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That's an interesting point...I'm not sure how Anglicised (ie controversial) that would be.

I dont think it would be controversial. What country would say no to going back to their old currency? I think it would be a popular decision.
I myself was quite upset when they sold their soul to the devil!!

 

[Tom B]

The problem is that a vast majority of the public are fed a load of lies and spin about the EU - by the right-wing press (you know, the same who would rather anyone who was a bit tanned wasn't allowed in the country, or that we dealt with murderers by murdering them, and that anyone who's gay should be burnt at the stake). Have you ever seen the Daily Mail &co print a balanced article about the EU - pointing out the benefits?

I still think "COULD YOUR SAUCEPANS BRING ON THE MENOPAUSE?!" to be the best Daily Mail Headline of 2011 though...

 

[Ferret]

Tom B - you don't have to read the Daily Mail to understand that there are some things fundamentally wrong with the EU. The fact that the auditors haven't signed off the accounts for years must tell you something!!!

 

[OxtedL]

I dont think it would be controversial. What country would say no to going back to their old currency? I think it would be a popular decision.
I myself was quite upset when they sold their soul to the devil!!

Goodness me, no-one could mistake you for pro-European!


Whilst the EU is perhaps flawed in its administration, the thinking behind it is sound, and that is important for the Western European Economies (or WEE - its Tuesday, so time to make up acronyms ). Including us.

Euro would have been an interesting decision. Indeed, I think it was almost expected that we would join eventually. But the financial crisis has shown us that this isn't a good idea at the moment...

 

[Greenback]

Whilst the EU is perhaps flawed in its administration, the thinking behind it is sound, and that is important for the Western European Economies.

I agree. Althoug the EU is far from perfect, the principles behind it are good ones, and we must remember that it is a very young organisation. Having said that, I am perhaps more sceptical now than when I studied Politics in uni sixteen years ago.

 

[Ferret]

+1 Greenback - some things about the EU really stink, but it's probably better to be in it and try and improve it than bail out altogether. I do think that successive Governments should've done more to deal with the down sides - for a start, I'd like the final say on all legal rulings to be made in a British Court that has an understanding of the issues at hand. Well - a man can dream can't he?

 

[Greenback]

Continue dreaming my friend, for one day it may come to pass!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

+1 Greenback - some things about the EU really stink, but it's probably better to be in it and try and improve it than bail out altogether. I do think that successive Governments should've done more to deal with the down sides - for a start, I'd like the final say on all legal rulings to be made in a British Court that has an understanding of the issues at hand. Well - a man can dream can't he?

Which is what the Supreme Court is for - the most senior domestic court in the UK. The European Court of Justice can only get involved on points of EU law. The European Court of Human Rights is there to make sure no government leans on the judiciary into making decisions they want. It is not affiliated with the EU.

 

[Aictos]

Yes we should leave the EU as it's overstepped it's mark, it was intended to be a free trade organisation between members but now is nothing more then a interfering bloated busybody.

We should be able to trade with the EU but not have them interfere in UK internal issues.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

interfering bloated busybody.

Where is your evidence of that claim, or indeed the one that it interferes with UK internal matters? A good read of the EU-UK Myths blog debunks a lot of theories.

 

[Greenback]

It was apparent from my studies in politics that the EU interference is largely incorrect. I don;t know how much things have changed, but in 1995-1996 when I passed the module on EU, UK and US political structures, the real power was in the Council of Ministers, rather than the Commission or the Parliament.

People seem unaware that the Council of Ministers is/was made up of elected representatives from the government of each country. The Transport Secretary, for example, would attend meetings with their corresponding colleagues from other EU states. This was where policy was really decided.

Sadly, the press seems fixated on unelected Commissioners, who act more as the civil service in putting forward proposals for others to consider.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

That was how I understood it to be Greenback.

The EU run a blog on news stories about the EU, and how they are quite usually, factually incorrect. It includes a brief description of the claim (such as us being fined GBP150mil for not flying an EU flag) and their response to the editor about the inaccurancies, and sometimes, lies. It's well worth a read.

Pre-2008 myths:
http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press/euromyths/archive_euromyths_2_en.htm

Current myth blog:
http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/blog/index_en.htm

 

[Greenback]

I'd be willing to bet that those in favour of withdrawal from the EU have no idea of how the union actually works except for what they read in the press.

The reason I am more sceptical about it now is that I believe the expansion in numbers of members has been too fast, and that this has weakened the EU as a whole. Also, the failure to get to grips with some of its ahortcomings is a little worrying.

 

[passmore]

I'd be willing to bet that those in favour of withdrawal from the EU have no idea of how the union actually works except for what they read in the press.

The reason I am more sceptical about it now is that I believe the expansion in numbers of members has been too fast, and that this has weakened the EU as a whole. Also, the failure to get to grips with some of its ahortcomings is a little worrying.

That's because what's written in the press usually has some degree of bias. I don't think we're that naive when it comes to how the union works as to resort to finding out through the tabloids or broadsheets.

But EU membership has meant a vast increase in the number of unskilled migrant workers coming to the UK, largely due to uncontrolled immigration. I see that as something which has become uncontrollable, someone else might see that as vital to this country's future workforce. Again, like EU membership, immigration levels in this country are debatable have no right/wrong answer.

One thing is certain and this isn't from reading the papers or watching the news: EU membership has resulted in an increase in migrant workers.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

One thing is certain and this isn't from reading the papers or watching the news: EU membership has resulted in an increase in migrant workers.

Why is that such a bad thing?

 

[Ferret]

Why is that such a bad thing?

It creates social disharmony. It also gives us a nice welfare bill to pay the terminally lazy in our indigenous population who are far less employable than hard working people from Eastern Europe.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It creates social disharmony. It also gives us a nice welfare bill to pay the terminally lazy in our indigenous population who are far less employable than hard working people from Eastern Europe.

Then surely that's a problem with us, not them, or Europe.

 

[passmore]

Why is that such a bad thing?

Nowhere in my post did I imply/say it was a 'bad thing', I merely highlighted that, like whether or not we should remain in the EU, migrant workers coming to this country is another topic of hot debate.

 

[radamfi]

Does anyone here value the fact that you are allowed to live and work anywhere in the EEA? That even includes countries richer than the UK and includes the public transport utopia of Switzerland, which used to be very difficult to get into.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Four reasons not to be in the EU.

1 The woman Ashton might have to get a job where she actually does
something for her £250,000 and her well paid minions.

2 We wouldn't be contributing to the fiasco that the Gallileo project
(something that's not even needed) is turning into.

3 We wouldn't be subsidising countries with collapsing economies and fiddling
Italian farmers.

4 We might actually be able to make our own laws without a second class
clerk from Wallonia telling us we're wrong to want to export illegal
immigrants who've murdered people here.

 

[WestCoast]

Does anyone here value the fact that you are allowed to live and work anywhere in the EEA? That even includes countries richer than the UK and includes the public transport utopia of Switzerland, which used to be very difficult to get into.

Yes, I think it's one of the greatest benefits of membership. The trading advantages and concessions are another major benefit, the UK's declining manufacturing sector (which does still provide many jobs) would suffer from the loss of EU membership.

It creates social disharmony. It also gives us a nice welfare bill to pay the terminally lazy in our indigenous population who are far less employable than hard working people from Eastern Europe.

I agree with what ralphchadkirk says; it's the UK's problem not Europe. Far too many people are so very used to a benefits culture which rewards idleness. It's an attitude which seems less prevalent in other EU nations.

 

[Ferret]

Then surely that's a problem with us, not them, or Europe.

I quite agree Ralph - and so far nobody in the echelons of power seems to give a stuff!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

1 The woman Ashton might have to get a job where she actually does
something for her £250,000 and her well paid minions.

Ashton does the jobs previously done by 3 people. Whilst juggling that, she also manages a 60% attendance rate at Commission meetings, all whilst negotiating and creating the new External Action Service. She chairs foreign affairs meetings each month, and travels widely. For instance, in Septemer 2010 she:

• Went to China and chaired a meeting of Foreign Affairs ministers
• Went to the European Council
• A week of meetings at the UN in New York
• Went to Washington
• Ended the month in the Middle East

She didn't have a weekend that month that wasn't affected by work or travel. She is also on-call at all times.
I think that deserves a pretty large salary.
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK...dance-record-at-european-commission-meetings/

2 We wouldn't be contributing to the fiasco that the Gallileo project
(something that's not even needed) is turning into

We do need Gallileo. The American GPS satellites that we currently use are all life expired, or coming up to life expiry. They are also very close to the minimum number of satellites needed. We need our own European system to be able to have a good number of satellites, good coverage, good technology, and not relying on something another country has sole control of. It is worthwhile.

3 We wouldn't be subsidising countries with collapsing economies and fiddling Italian farmers.

If we left, we couldn't be subsidised if something in our economy went wrong, and our farmers wouldn't be subsidised. In short, we would be hanging ourselves out to try if we left.

4 We might actually be able to make our own laws without a second class
clerk from Wallonia telling us we're wrong to want to export illegal
immigrants who've murdered people here.

I'm not sure you could have written anything that could be more offensive. In any case, it was the European Court of Human Rights not the European Union.
Apart from the well-discussed on here hit-and-run case, can you actually find another where this has occured?

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Ashton does the jobs previously done by 3 people. Whilst juggling that, she also manages a 60% attendance rate at Commission meetings, all whilst negotiating and creating the new External Action Service. She chairs foreign affairs meetings each month, and travels widely. For instance, in Septemer 2010 she:

• Went to China and chaired a meeting of Foreign Affairs ministers
• Went to the European Council
• A week of meetings at the UN in New York
• Went to Washington
• Ended the month in the Middle East

She didn't have a weekend that month that wasn't affected by work or travel. She is also on-call at all times.
I think that deserves a pretty large salary.
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK...dance-record-at-european-commission-meetings/

We do need Gallileo. The American GPS satellites that we currently use are all life expired, or coming up to life expiry. They are also very close to the minimum number of satellites needed. We need our own European system to be able to have a good number of satellites, good coverage, good technology, and not relying on something another country has sole control of. It is worthwhile.

If we left, we couldn't be subsidised if something in our economy went wrong, and our farmers wouldn't be subsidised. In short, we would be hanging ourselves out to try if we left.

I'm not sure you could have written anything that could be more offensive. In any case, it was the European Court of Human Rights not the European Union.
Apart from the well-discussed on here hit-and-run case, can you actually find another where this has occured?

Christ you really have been brainwashed. How do you think we managed before grocer Heath took us in?
Ashton has been constantly criticised by officials for being totally non-commitive on meetings and for not even bothering to learn French. What was her qualification(s) for this important post? Chair of a health authority. This is an organisation who are so deeply corrupt that no-one has signed off the accounts for seven, SEVEN years! The one person who exposed the deeply flawed expenses system was hounded out of her job by another failed Labour politician, the Welsh windbag himself Lord "if I had my way I'd close the House of Lords immediately" Kinnock. He and his money grubbing wife were soon on the E.E.C. gravytrain and make no mistake, it is a gravy train financed and paid for by taxpayers. The E.E.C. and all it's employees are all self serving beaurocrats who are nothing more than self-serving meddlers. We don't need a European Economic Community, we've got our own. It's called The Commonwealth.
Meanwhile there's three countries who's financial system is on it's knees - plus a possible two more - having to be rescued because of the collaps of the currency. We're still harbouring criminals, terrorists and child molesters because of judges in Belgium - a country that hasn't had a government for over a year - telling us that we have to.

 

[WestCoast]

. We don't need a European Economic Community, we've got our own. It's called The Commonwealth.

The Commonwealth is of very little use nowadays on many different levels.

We're still harbouring criminals, terrorists and child molesters because of judges in Belgium - a country that hasn't had a government for over a year - telling us that we have to.

Much of that is due the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, not the EU! That court has 47 members (the council of Europe) and includes member states like Russia and Turkey.

....and all of the politicians in the UK Government are the epitome of efficiency, extremely honest, 100% democratic and not corrupt in the slightest? :roll: