Bristol to Manchester

[Starmill]

I note that no Bristol to Manchester services are currently operating, or have been for many months. In normal times direct trains had a relatively competitive journey time at three hours.

There are decent hourly services available between Bristol and Birmingham and Birmingham and Manchester, but connecting services from Birmingham New Street are 61 minutes wait at the current time.

A quick sub 10 minute connection is alternatively available at Newport, but unfortunately this option is with a journey time of 3h 55.

One single exception is available, which is the 1400 from Bristol Temple Meads, which offers a half hour connection in Birmingham rather a whole hour.

It would appear that this situation is to continue like this for the next four months as a minimum - is that right?

If Bristol to Manchester services are to be withdrawn long-term, shouldn't more effort have been put into the connections which remain? I can't find any further information on the CrossCountry website. Or has this simply been forgotten about?

 

[JonathanH]

If Bristol to Manchester services are to be withdrawn long-term, shouldn't more effort have been put into the connections which remain?

That is a bit difficult if the trains that remain in the timetable have to run pretty much in their existing paths because of the other services running around them.

One possible option (admittedly reliant on a sub optimal connection at Crewe) could be to connect into the Avanti train to Preston at Birmingham and then change at Crewe for Manchester.

 

[Starmill]

That is a bit difficult if the trains that remain in the timetable have to run pretty much in their existing paths.

So nothing can be provided except for the 1400? For nine months? The other paths are of course there, they're just unused.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2020 ==

One possible option (admittedly reliant on a sub optimal connection at Crewe) could be to connect into the Avanti train to Preston at Birmingham and then change at Crewe for Manchester.

That's not a valid connection at Crewe.

The two-change options are at Gloucester every two hours, also taking 3h 50 and using the stopper from Bristol to Gloucester, or using West Midlands Trains and changing at Stoke-on-Trent, which is the fastest option, but it's still 30 minutes longer and replaces a through train with two changes, which is not really reasonable.

 

[43055]

So nothing can be provided except for the 1400?

The 1400 (1153 ex Plymouth) looks to be a recent addition useing a HST which I think started off as a sort of one off but by the sounds of thinks will become a permanent Monday to Friday working. With a lot of the voyager services running as double sets I would imagine the number of spare sets is low and in normall times don't the Bournemouths and Bristol interwork?

 

[Starmill]

The 1400 (1153 ex Plymouth) looks to be a recent addition useing a HST which I think started off as a sort of one off but by the sounds of thinks will become a permanent Monday to Friday working. With a lot of the voyager services running as double sets I would imagine the number of spare sets is low and in normall times don't the Bournemouths and Bristol interwork?

My guess is that that service was reinstated in order to relieve the 0931 from Penzance after Plymouth.

 

[JonathanH]

So nothing can be provided except for the 1400? For nine months? The other paths are of course there, they're just unused.

Well yes, if Cross Country are going to run double Voyager formations on the Bournemouth to Manchester route and Plymouth to Edinburgh route, some obviously stopping short, then they don't have enough stock to run the Bristol to Manchester and Reading to Newcastle routes.

 

[Starmill]

Well yes, if Cross Country are going to run double Voyager formations on the Bournemouth to Manchester route and Plymouth to Edinburgh route, some obviously stopping short, then they don't have enough stock to run the Bristol to Manchester and Reading to Newcastle routes.

Only one set and crew would need to be provided to work two or three round trips between Bristol and Birmingham.

 

[JonathanH]

Only one set and crew would need to be provided to work two or three round trips between Bristol and Birmingham.

It would be interesting to know whether XC are running 53 Voyager diagrams as they would in the full timetable to provide the current service or whether they have taken the opportunity to use fewer units.

I agree that it would appear possible to run Bristol to Birmingham using one pair of units in the existing paths but then do they come under pressure to look at restoring other similar services on the other parts of the X?

There does, for instance appear to be a pair of 'off-pattern' services from Birmingham New Street to Banbury.

 

[43 302]

My guess is that that service was reinstated in order to relieve the 0931 from Penzance after Plymouth.

It is becoming a regular M-F diagram now for the forseable short-term future in order to retain route knowledge, every run I have been on/have seen on social media could've socially distanced effectively in a 153.

 

[Starmill]

Even if only a solo set could be provided and it only worked two trips each way, such as 1000 and 1600 departures from Bristol Temple Meads would make quite a bit of difference.

 

[Ianno87]

Even if only a solo set could be provided and it only worked two trips each way, such as 1000 and 1600 departures from Bristol Temple Meads would make quite a bit of difference.

It's complicated by the cross-forming needed at Manchester. Say a 1000 from Bristol would need to be the 1327 Bournemouth departure from Manchester. That Means the ~1230 Bournemouth arrival would need to form a 1307 to Bristol, which by definition is the 1700 back, etc.

And if you're cross-forming with doubled up Bournemouths, that means you need any extra Bristol to also be a double set.

And assuming all the diagrams can balance and cycle nicely too.

 

[JonathanH]

It's complicated by the cross-forming needed at Manchester. Say a 1000 from Bristol would need to be the 1327 Bournemouth departure from Manchester. That Means the ~1230 Bournemouth arrival would need to form a 1307 to Bristol, which by definition is the 1700 back, etc.

And if you're cross-forming with doubled up Bournemouths, that means you need any extra Bristol to also be a double set.

And assuming all the diagrams can balance and cycle nicely too.

The previous poster was suggesting that any extra trains from Bristol only run as far as Birmingham with Manchester only having through services from Bournemouth so no cross-forming.

 

[Ianno87]

The previous poster was suggesting that any extra trains from Bristol only run as far as Birmingham with Manchester only having through services from Bournemouth so no cross-forming.

Ah, would depend whether you can sensibly park at Voyager at New Street for an hour or so, *unless* the paths worked out (which I've a feeling they might) so you could 'loop' it Bristol - Selly Oak - New Street - Camp Hill - Bristol with a relatively short dwell at New Street.

 

[Camden]

National Rail suggests that southbound the single new street connection allows for a journey time just over 3 hours. Northbound averaging between 3:15 and 3:30. In the current circumstances, it doesn't seem unacceptable.

I wonder if it's the same train even, just parked at new st for 15 mins.

 

[Starmill]

Ah, would depend whether you can sensibly park at Voyager at New Street for an hour or so, *unless* the paths worked out (which I've a feeling they might) so you could 'loop' it Bristol - Selly Oak - New Street - Camp Hill - Bristol with a relatively short dwell at New Street.

I believe that this is what that service from Plymouth does.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2020 ==

Northbound averaging between 3:15 and 3:30. In the current circumstances, it doesn't seem unacceptable.

This is with two changes, which isn't really reasonable as a replacement for an hourly direct service. I don't see anything in as little as 3h 15 though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2020 ==

I wonder if it's the same train even, just parked at new st for 15 mins.

The train from Manchester continues in the Reading direction so it certainly won't be the same train. From Bristol you're changing onto a West Midlands Trains service so it couldn't be the same train.

 

[The Fox 4846]

Noticed on RTT that there is a service that goes between Paignton and Bristol but spends around 3-4 hours at the depot in Bristol between around 11-3. Would it not be possible to operate up to Birmingham and return rather than sit in a depot?

 

[Ianno87]

Noticed on RTT that there is a service that goes between Paignton and Bristol but spends around 3-4 hours at the depot in Bristol between around 11-3. Would it not be possible to operate up to Birmingham and return rather than sit in a depot?

Would need to be sat at New Street for around 2 hours

 

[Camden]

I believe that this is what that service from Plymouth does.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2020 ==


This is with two changes, which isn't really reasonable as a replacement for an hourly direct service. I don't see anything in as little as 3h 15 though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2020 ==


The train from Manchester continues in the Reading direction so it certainly won't be the same train. From Bristol you're changing onto a West Midlands Trains service so it couldn't be the same train.

No, it's with one change at Birmingham. Times are hard, difficult choices have to be made.

 

[yorkie]

I have split some posts to: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/unlikely-we-will-see-a-return-to-full-xc-timetable.208460/

If anyone has any concerns please ensure these are reported using the report button (and not posted in any forum thread), thanks