Brighton main line disruption 08Dec17

[Antman]

A signal failure is causing major delays which are likely to continue for sometime.

http://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/disruption/details/34833763A123430EA12D79DCC733D6C9

 

[Coolzac]

I am currently on my way to CLJ. So far we have had mass cancellations due to Signal failure around East Croydon, Points failure around Haywards Heath and Signal failure around Hove. This is all too regular. Is there no resilience in the rail network?

 

[RichJF]

Apparently the chaos today was caused by a National Grid power failure which then mucked up the signals.

Rumour has it (from coworker who enjoys trains) & is a member of the Redhill rail users on FB, that a transformer in Coulsdon overloaded & took out the signalling on BML, East Grinstead & Uckfield lines!

 

[Bishopstone]

I’ve not been booking business meetings in Zone 1 before 11.00 for a few years, since the London Bridge rebuild chaos started.

Today I made an exception to my rule and booked a 09.30 meeting. I was, of course, late, despite setting-off before 07.00

Victoria was still in a state of flux at 13.15 with no non-Metro departures on the board, until the (late) 13.15 GatEx fleetingly appeared and I jumped aboard, to bag a whole carriage to myself.

I suspect the pm peak is going to be disrupted quite badly, too.

Not many months, now, until ‘power failure at Gatwick’ will cause a swathe of cancellations at St Neots etc.

 

[rebmcr]

Is there no resilience in the rail network?

Unfortunately not, every last scrap of capacity is used in the AM peak, leaving pretty much no slack for coping.

 

[Railcar]

every last scrap of capacity is used in the AM peak, leaving pretty much no slack for coping

Resilience is more than just having spare trains. There were plenty of trains today, but a great many of them were running ECS because getting trains in the right place overrides looking after passengers. Others were skip-stopping, running late or cancelled.

To add to the chaos, the Customer Information Screens were giving false information about which trains were running (I observed this at various times at East Croydon, Haywards Heath, Eastbourne and Sutton) and the automatic announcements were likewise giving false information. Platform staff were left in the dark and there were no Station Managers to be seen.

Resilience is being able to cope with all aspects of running a railway.

 

[IKB]

There were plenty of trains today, but a great many of them were running ECS because getting trains in the right place overrides looking after passengers.

Getting trains in the right place helps to recover the timetable and look after passengers later in the day. If there were no ECS moves or station omissions people would also be complaining the TOC can't recover the service. Do - damned, don't - damned.

If you've got terminal stations full of displaced rolling stock and trains stacked outside, ECS moves or terminating short are a necessary evil.

 

[HowardGWR]

I noted that these cancellations and running short would have meant that a service I was planning to take in a few weeks' time would a have possibly led to my missing a flight at Gatwick, given today's performance, despite my original plan to arrive there 90 mins before the flight (hand luggage), using booked connections. I would have arrived with approx 30 mins to go, at North Terminal, where I believe they will not let you into security if it was 29 mins to the flight. I just wonder about how pax got on today and the misery caused.

 

[Railcar]

Even if "ECS moves or terminating short are a necessary evil" it doesn't excuse the discourtesy shown to passengers with hours and hours of false information. The controllers and signallers know where they are sending trains - are the CIS and auto announcement systems so fragile and badly designed that they cannot be kept aligned with the controller's decisions?

 

[grid56126]

There was a national Darwin outage (not connected directly to this problem) which had a significant impact on CIS. My days of dealing with the info side at grass routes level are gone so I am not too sure of causes etc.

I was on my way in to work at about 06.20 in the car when "the lights went out" in Selhurst. It was more than a tad eerie driving through Croydon in the dark. Some lights were coming back as I drove along Wellesley Road and the fire engines were coming out as I got to the flyover. It was at that point I guesed correctly that walking into the office was not going to be good.

 

[rebmcr]

Resilience is more than just having spare trains.

Yes, that's why I said "capacity" and not "spare trains"...

 

[George109]

GTRs PPM is currently at 39%, the Southern Metro is at 13% (90 of 691 trains) with, 48%>30mins, GX is at 17% and mainline is 21%. Not ideal!

Does GTR get fined for delays? I assume GTR doesn't as it's a management contract and it doesn't deal with fares or delay repay

Would GTR get compensation from Network Rail?

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes GTR will get compensation from NR. Rather a lot of it for this one.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Had a friend travelling back up to Cumbria today from the coast. His train departed Littlehampton 50L and only called at Worthing and Hove before being terminated at Haywards Heath. What was more surprising, though, is that the recommended (TL) service behind it was on time throughout!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not many months, now, until ‘power failure at Gatwick’ will cause a swathe of cancellations at St Neots etc.

The useless local rag here in the Epsom area went one better online this morning and confidently stated that all London terminals were affected by the Croydon issue.

 

[HowardGWR]

In fairness, the great frequency of trains on SR means that there is soon one behind, as my Gatwick example would have proved. The only problem is that, with all trains being very well filled, even outside the peaks*, the overcrowding issue becomes serious. GTR SR was telling people not to travel. That's OK for them, because, if I understand Bald_Rick correctly, they would have been compensated, but the pax would not have been, unless delay repay applied, and the taxpayer certainly would not be, as the loss of fares from the pax who didn't travel, and the cost of NR's compensation, fall on the taxpayer, a double whammy.
*Except perhaps the half empty GX services I observe when on that route!

 

[BestWestern]

Even if "ECS moves or terminating short are a necessary evil" it doesn't excuse the discourtesy shown to passengers with hours and hours of false information. The controllers and signallers know where they are sending trains - are the CIS and auto announcement systems so fragile and badly designed that they cannot be kept aligned with the controller's decisions?

Yes, they are! There is a huge weakness in just about every CIS/PIS system on the network, which is that they simply do not cope in times of significant service disruption. Too much going on, and presumably it is far too time consuming to have a team of people relentlessly updating them. 'Man with microphone' is far more useful at these times.

 

[Taunton]

I’ve not been booking business meetings in Zone 1 before 11.00 for a few years, since the London Bridge rebuild chaos started.

Today I made an exception to my rule and booked a 09.30 meeting. I was, of course, late, despite setting-off before 07.00.

This applies elsewhere (especially ECML/WCML) nowadays. It is why I find the political approach encouraging the giving up of travel by car, to use public transport, so misconceived. I do plenty of quite lengthy business journeys by car, and, notwithstanding starting from inner London, the reliability of journey time is far better. In fact I cannot remember a business meeting this year, 2017, that I was late for by car. But I certainly can by rail. If the PPM calculation was able to measure the passengers' arrival, at final destination after connecting, instead of the train, it would show a very different figure.

What rail has lost is the ability to recover after any disruption. I can recall, in mid-1980s BR days, having to go from Manchester to London for an 11.30 meeting. Normally the 0700 arriving Euston 0940 was adequate. But this day it was a blizzard throughout, even before I left. So I went for the 0600 instead. It was delayed in arrival - by 50 minutes. So all was well. And the return was straightforward as well. Nowadays they would still be trying to recover the service two days later.

 

[Bald Rick]

In fairness, the great frequency of trains on SR means that there is soon one behind, as my Gatwick example would have proved. The only problem is that, with all trains being very well filled, even outside the peaks*, the overcrowding issue becomes serious. GTR SR was telling people not to travel. That's OK for them, because, if I understand Bald_Rick correctly, they would have been compensated, but the pax would not have been, unless delay repay applied, and the taxpayer certainly would not be, as the loss of fares from the pax who didn't travel, and the cost of NR's compensation, fall on the taxpayer, a double whammy.
*Except perhaps the half empty GX services I observe when on that route!

A significant majority of the compensation that goes from NR to GTR for such incidents passes straight through to DfT.

 

[Bald Rick]

What rail has lost is the ability to recover after any disruption. I can recall, in mid-1980s BR days, having to go from Manchester to London for an 11.30 meeting. Normally the 0700 arriving Euston 0940 was adequate. But this day it was a blizzard throughout, even before I left. So I went for the 0600 instead. It was delayed in arrival - by 50 minutes. So all was well. And the return was straightforward as well. Nowadays they would still be trying to recover the service two days later.

Of course in the mid 80s there were typically 5 trains per hour on the WCML fast lines south of Rugby, and only 3 passenger trains per hour on the WCML south of Colwich. Rather than 10/7 respectively now, and a lot more freight.

That's by no means the only reason why recovery takes longer, but it is a significant factor.

 

[George109]

Right time at 10 percent for the Metro, bet GTR are cashing in on this one from the NR compensation especially as SN don't pay for delay repay!

 

[Agent_Squash]

View attachment 40278
Right time at 10 percent for the Metro, bet GTR are cashing in on this one from the NR compensation especially as SN don't pay for delay repay!

Delay repayments from NR often go straight to the DfT.

 

[Bald Rick]

Delay repayments from NR often go straight to the DfT.

As stated above, a large majority of the schedule 8 payments go through GTR to DfT

 

[George109]

I stand corrected, sorry. Still a terrible day for Southern and passengers