Brighton - London Victoria Penalty Fare

[47421]

Say you travel Brighton - Victoria with a RC disc tic and get challenged at Vic gateline for the RC which you have not got on you.

What is the appropriate penalty fare?

Is it 2 x £24.70, £24.70 being Brighton to Vic SDS Any Permitted, or is it 2 x £25.80, £25.80 being Brighton to London Terminals SDS Any Permitted?

thanks

 

[LexyBoy]

£24.70 would be the appropriate fare AIUI, this being the SDS for the journey made.

If your question is: "Would a Penalty Fare made on the basis of the £25.80 fare be invalid?", then I don't know, but I'd expect it to just be amended to the correct fare.

 

[47421]

Just looking at the Nat Conds of Carriage Part 1 Para A 2, "full single fare or full return fare" is defined as "the highest priced single or ... return... for the journey you are making".

If that interpretation applies in the context of penalty fares then I think the higher London Terminals fare can be charged at Vic.

Any other's observations welcome.

 

[island]

We had a long discussion on a similar topic a month or two ago and the strong consensus (which I did not personally agree with) was that the lower fare would be chargeable.

 

[Clip]

We had a long discussion on a similar topic a month or two ago and the strong consensus (which I did not personally agree with) was that the lower fare would be chargeable.

I thought I wrote something similar earlier but it hasnt shown. I think the last one was about just a straightforward penalty fare - this one for me would only be decided on which ticket they actually held as to what Penalty was charged.

 

[LexyBoy]

Wasn't the discussion previously concerning choice of TOC Only / Any Permitted tickets? In this case there's definitely a good case for charging the Any Permitted unless it is certain that the passenger can only have used one TOC.

In this case, a London Terminals ticket would not be valid beyond Victoria so there's no reason to use that, unlike say if the same thing happened at London Bridge. I think Clip's suggestion is the most reasonable though.

 

[47421]

Thanks, tic held was an Advance so only valid to Vic, so that could lend some weight to argument that PF should have been calc based on the fare to Vic

 

[34D]

is the objective to try and get off £25.80 (rather than £1.10) on a technicality?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....In this case, a London Terminals ticket would not be valid beyond Victoria so there's no reason to use that, unlike say if the same thing happened at London Bridge. I think Clip's suggestion is the most reasonable though.

The Southern Railway leaflet on Penalty Fares notes:

How much is the Penalty Fare?
If you board a train without a valid ticket for your entire journey,
or a valid Permit to Travel, you may be charged a Penalty Fare of
£20 or twice the full single fare (whichever is the greater) to the
next stop, plus the full single fare to complete your journey.

This is clear that it must be either the full single to Victoria or the full single to London Terminals in the case of being 'caught' at Victoria. I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to say which is correct from this leaflet.

A Penalty Fare would not allow you continue a journey beyond Victoria anyway, so any arguments about what fare to use based on what else it would normally allow you to do are irrelevant imo.