Brexit -rail freight opportunity?

[matacaster]

Severe delays are being predicted at channel ports affecting road transport, although I think its overstated and part ofproject fear mk3. However accordingato doom mongers it would particularly affect drivers working hours and trucks being tied up in lay-bys. Is there an opportunity for railfreight to exploit here, both for transport solely via tunnel and direct to inland railfreight hubs?

 

[duesselmartin]

Checks would also take place on trains.
Surely the railways dont have the stock, staff or infrastructure to jump in short term.
Any road disruption would dissapear once new arrangements have been made.

Seeing inter modal trains would be nice
Martin

 

[LLivery]

There isn't exactly loads of capacity for extra passenger trains let alone freight, especially in the Southern, Great Eastern and on the WCML, so I doubt it. Then again, I doubt much of this will end well. Maybe I'm just a pessimistic doom-mongerer and everything will be cushty.

 

[DarloRich]

Severe delays are being predicted at channel ports affecting road transport, although I think its overstated and part ofproject fear mk3. However accordingato doom mongers it would particularly affect drivers working hours and trucks being tied up in lay-bys. Is there an opportunity for railfreight to exploit here, both for transport solely via tunnel and direct to inland railfreight hubs?

Because, of course, there wont be any checks on rail freight..........

 

[matacaster]

Because, of course, there wont be any checks on rail freight..........

Yes, there will be but likely at origin and destination rather than at tunnel entrance.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, there will be but likely at origin and destination rather than at tunnel entrance.

While that would be a sensible approach we do not know what will happen.

We also don't have armies of customs men ready to leap into action!

 

[geoffk]

The words "Brexit" and "opportunity" don't belong in the same sentence unless your name is Banks, Rees-Mogg or Redwood.

 

[HLE]

The words "Brexit" and "opportunity" don't belong in the same sentence unless your name is Banks, Rees-Mogg or Redwood.

Let’s leave the politics to the thread in the general discussion forum. We’re all allowed our opinion, even me who disagrees with the above.

 

[furnessvale]

Yes, there will be but likely at origin and destination rather than at tunnel entrance.

As people write on here this is already being sorted out. Long before the EU was a dream in Verhopstadt's eye, locations such as MIFT (Manchester International Freight Terminal) operated inland customs clearance. This is being reactivated.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I remember visiting the Customs Shed at Dover Western Docks in the early-1980s. A VTG ferryvan which had arrived from France loaded with hundreds of cases of bottled vermouth was being emptied out manually onto the platform so the Customs Officers could ascertain that the consignment note matched precisely with the actual load.

I'm afraid we might see a return to random checks by jobsworth Customs Officers with inevitable delays. At Harwich I recall Customs took hours to clear routine imported ferrywagons and had the knack of releasing them just after the trains that would have taken them forward had departed.

There is I believe a potential at least for running intermodal trains to inland clearance terminals avoiding any delays at Dollands Moor. There was such a facility at for example Trafford Park called MIFT (Manchester International Freight Terminal) and this could be revived.

 

[68000]

Let’s leave the politics to the thread in the general discussion forum. We’re all allowed our opinion, even me who disagrees with the above.

Actually the OP reads like dismissing of the downfalls of Brexit so politics is already here

 

[Andrew1395]

I would expect the economic reaction of the logistics business will be to press the government to allow bigger lorries, dedicated lanes for lorries and an expansion in the size and number of Warehouse complexies near major road interchanges. I think rail is at a major disadvantage over road. Partly because of the nature of the geography and use of the trunk rail network. In particular where the main ports are and London getting in the way.

 

[JonathanP]

In the short term, no-one can predict what will happen in the event of an unexpected imposition of border checks without time for proper preparation.

However, I think in the long term, if full customs checks become a permanent reality, it could definitely be an advantage for rail, which due it's predictable nature, scheduling and the small number of operators with direct interaction with the border agencies, will be able to arrange the necessary customs resources in advance and offer dependable services, unlike road hauliers. If you look at other external EU borders like Poland <-> Ukraine or Romania <-> Moldova, the rail traffic runs smoother than the road traffic.

I was talking to a Ukrainian woman recently who told me she always prefers to take the train when going to Poland, even though she was a student with not much cash, because the queues at the border for road vehicles are between 3 and 12 hours depending on the how thoroughly the border checks are being conducted, but for rail movements the checks happen immediately. Admittedly this is for passenger not for freight, but it demonstrates the concept.

 

[Gostav]

As a foreigner from the mainland, l am very curious that in this country many busy stations lack any siding.

 

[edwin_m]

As a foreigner from the mainland, l am very curious that in this country many busy stations lack any siding.

Up until the 1960s nearly every station had goods sidings. Almost every one is now either a car park, sold off or derelict.

Firstly we are a fairly small island so the distance freight can travel within the country is limited and going by rail is less likely to be viable at shorter distances. There used to be train ferry traffic and now there is the Tunnel but using those made things much more complicated. Goods can come in by sea but then it is in a container and even if it does some of its UK journey on a train it can easily be lifted onto a lorry for final delivery.

Secondly rail management and government supervision from the 1960s onwards (Beeching and successors) were very focused on cutting costs. The traditional wagonload to sidings at stations probably didn't make a profit since early in the 20th century and with the advent of reasonable roads and reliable road vehicles the traffic just disappeared.

 

[Ken H]

Most of our imports come through felixtowe, Immingham, Southampton Thames gateway etc, not via dover. And these places have been importing from outside the EU for many years, and will simply carry on. As will the large amount of air freight.

And remember, the big container ports are already rail connected - so a move from EU trade to rest of the world may well benefit UK railways.

 

[HH]

Air freight is an interesting one. I'm no expert, but I have seen figures on which airports it goes to and where it then goes. It's not efficient at all, because much of it then travels vast distances by road. Also, Gold features highly; basically air freight is too expensive for most stuff.

 

[gordonthemoron]

perhaps they should reopen the Felixstowe-Zeebrugge route?

 

[Ken H]

Air freight is an interesting one. I'm no expert, but I have seen figures on which airports it goes to and where it then goes. It's not efficient at all, because much of it then travels vast distances by road. Also, Gold features highly; basically air freight is too expensive for most stuff.

lots of high value fruit and veg is air freight. peruvian plums, kenyan mange tout.

 

[HH]

lots of high value fruit and veg is air freight. peruvian plums, kenyan mange tout.

Don't buy much of that stuff, but I'm sure they're popular in Knightsbridge.

 

[Ken H]

Don't buy much of that stuff, but I'm sure they're popular in Knightsbridge.

sell it in our local co-op

 

[brad465]

As an environmental person I would advocate freight exploiting such issues, just to get lorries off the road, let alone help in such customs' trouble.

But the current railway line capacity doesn't support this I believe, and maybe long term should be auctioned, but it'll be too late for the EU departure

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

As an environmental person I would advocate freight exploiting such issues, just to get lorries off the road, let alone help in such customs' trouble.

But the current railway line capacity doesn't support this I believe, and maybe long term should be auctioned, but it'll be too late for the EU departure

It's the lack of capacity that's the key. Assuming the most likely method of any increase in rail-borne freight from the EU would be in containers that's nearly all going to come in via east coast ports. But Felixstowe is the only one that can send trains on (uncongested) non-London routes and the Felixstowe branch is full. Unless you shut down the passenger service: a Brexit-Beeching! None of the other more northerly east coast ports is even geared up for putting boxes on trains and even if they were there is precious little track capacity to carry them. Growth in non-EU traffic will very likely happen later and some could be accommodated via west coast ports though the same problems still exist to some degree. It will take some years for the various freight carriers to adjust to changed circumstances but given that road haulage is intrinsically more flexible than rail I doubt that Brexit will offer more than a few crumbs to British railfreight.

 

[Ken H]

It's the lack of capacity that's the key. Assuming the most likely method of any increase in rail-borne freight from the EU would be in containers that's nearly all going to come in via east coast ports. But Felixstowe is the only one that can send trains on (uncongested) non-London routes and the Felixstowe branch is full. Unless you shut down the passenger service: a Brexit-Beeching! None of the other more northerly east coast ports is even geared up for putting boxes on trains and even if they were there is precious little track capacity to carry them. Growth in non-EU traffic will very likely happen later and some could be accommodated via west coast ports though the same problems still exist to some degree. It will take some years for the various freight carriers to adjust to changed circumstances but given that road haulage is intrinsically more flexible than rail I doubt that Brexit will offer more than a few crumbs to British railfreight.

southampton-midlands doesnt go via london. They go Basingstoke-reading-oxford-leamington

 

[HH]

sell it in our local co-op

Didn't know there was a co-op in Knightsbridge. Just goes to show...

 

[underbank]

We also don't have armies of customs men ready to leap into action!

I'm told that HMRC have plans in place to re-assign existing customs/vat/tax employees to work on secondment to deal with imports/exports. Such staff have already been used in the past to supplement Border Force staff in airports to help reduce queues/delays. April to June is a particularly "quiet" time in tax offices dealing with self assessment tax returns and in other depts, duties like routine VAT inspections can wait.

 

[Ken H]

Didn't know there was a co-op in Knightsbridge. Just goes to show...

one at earls Court. few stops on the tube. Dunno if they sell ugly fruit and quinoa tho.

 

[deltic08]

Most of our imports come through felixtowe, Immingham, Southampton Thames gateway etc, not via dover. And these places have been importing from outside the EU for many years, and will simply carry on. As will the large amount of air freight.

And remember, the big container ports are already rail connected - so a move from EU trade to rest of the world may well benefit UK railways.

Immingham, Hull and Teesport have increased container transhipment recently and all are rail connected.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

southampton-midlands doesnt go via london. They go Basingstoke-reading-oxford-leamington

And Basingstoke-Reading alone is currently, to all intents and purposes, full up. Even if the magical Digital Railway can create an additional path or two there remains the issue of conflicting movements with the SWML at Basingstoke which will need a flyover to solve. Certainly do-able but not on a short timescale. Similar issues exist at Didcot and Oxford.

Immingham, Hull and Teesport have increased container transhipment recently and all are rail connected.

While there could easily be increased throughput of EU freight at all those ports they are sufficiently close to the most obvious inland destinations to make road haulage a much cheaper option. For that to change will need a clampdown on pollution from diesel powered hgvs but current government thinking seems more interested in eliminating smaller diesel vehicles. It would help rail's case if those ports' rail connections were electrified but they're not nor likely to be any time soon.