Brexit matters

[birchesgreen]

Anecdotally i hear and see more much overt racism from some folks than just a few years ago, though these people are unlikely to have changed, just feel able to be less hidden about what they truly feel.

 

[duncanp]

Since the referendum back in 2016, we seem to have become more racist than ever before.

For example, there is the Windrush scandal, the ongoing racism in cricket, and most recently, homophobia and racism in the London Fire Brigade and Avon and Somerset Police.



See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-65921150 for the original article.

Ever since the referendum and the aftermath of Brexit, it is a racism problem we have.

Absolute nonsense.

Such racism as exists in this country existed whilst we were a member of the EU, and would still exist if we had voted to remain in 2016.

The Windrush scandal, the issues with racism in cricket, the fire brigade and the police have got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit.

And racism also exists in EU member states just as much as it exists the UK.

 

[najaB]

Such racism as exists in this country existed whilst we were a member of the EU, and would still exist if we had voted to remain in 2016.

I don't think anyone is making the claim that racism in the UK started in 2016 since that would be, quite rightly, seen as nonsense.

However, it is undeniable that the rhetoric that lead some people to, even subconsciously, support Brexit is the same rhetoric that informs a lot of the divisive attitudes (eg. increased trans-phobia, anti-immigrant viewpoints and, yes, racism) that we see more openly expressed than they would have been a decade ago.

 

[JamesT]

I don't think anyone is making the claim that racism in the UK started in 2016 since that would be, quite rightly, seen as nonsense.

However, it is undeniable that the rhetoric that lead some people to, even subconsciously, support Brexit is the same rhetoric that informs a lot of the divisive attitudes (eg. increased trans-phobia, anti-immigrant viewpoints and, yes, racism) that we see more openly expressed than they would have been a decade ago.

Studies such as https://www.kcl.ac.uk/policy-institute/assets/love-thy-neighbour.pdf tend to show the UK is a more tolerant society than most and has been increasingly so over time.

Are these views more openly expressed, or just that people are seeing them? Social media tends to amplify the voices that previously might have only been heard down the local pub.

 

[najaB]

Are these views more openly expressed, or just that people are seeing them? Social media tends to amplify the voices that previously might have only been heard down the local pub.

It's likely a little of both.

And it doesn't help that any criticism of those views results in being labelled as part of the "wokeiratti".

 

[edwin_m]

Meanwhile, another projection of national impoverishment partly due to Brexit, this one suggesting that many Brexit-voting areas will do badly while London continues to surge ahead.

Spending power to surge in London but plunge in other regions

Parts of the North, Midlands, Wales and Northern Ireland will be hit hardest by inflation, warns think tank.

www.bbc.co.uk

Over the last few years inflation - the rate at which prices rise - has soared due to Brexit, Covid and the Ukraine war, said the National Institute for Economic and Social Research (Niesr), which is one of the UK's oldest economic forecasting bodies.
Wages have also climbed, but not as fast as prices, leaving households across the UK feeling squeezed.
Niesr said that had resulted in five years of "lost" economic growth. And it said the surging cost of living meant people's spending power in many parts of the UK would not be back to 2019 levels by next year.
Among the regions seeing the biggest squeeze are the North East, Yorkshire, the West Midlands and Wales.
By contrast people's real wages in London, southern parts of England, the North West and Scotland are recovering quickly.

 

[156421]

Anecdotally i hear and see more much overt racism from some folks than just a few years ago, though these people are unlikely to have changed, just feel able to be less hidden about what they truly feel.

Are black soccer players still subjected to monkey sound chants in this country as they are in Spain (part of EU)?

 

[birchesgreen]

Are black soccer players still subjected to monkey sound chants is this country as they are in Spain (part of EU)?

Whats that got to do with what i said?

 

[brad465]

Whoops:

No 10 suggests UK still EU member in tweet gaffe

A now-deleted post said the UK "is home to twice as many AI companies as any other EU country".

www.bbc.co.uk

Downing Street has had to correct a tweet, after it suggested the UK is still a member of the European Union.
In a post on X, the new name for Twitter, the official No 10 account used a graphic saying the UK "is home to twice as many AI companies as any other EU country".
It was deleted and a new graphic, saying "any EU country" instead, was reposted 45 minutes later.
The UK left the trading bloc in January 2020, after the 2016 referendum.
The post was promoting the government's investment in artificial intelligence, including an announcement of £13m for use of the technology in healthcare such as surgical robotics.
The thread also highlighted the appointment of experts Matt Clifford and Jonathan Black, tasked with leading the preparations for the first major international summit on the responsible use of AI, which the UK is set to host later this year.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has said he wants the UK to lead efforts to ensure the benefits of AI are "harnessed for the good of humanity".
He has pledged £1bn in funding over the next 10 years to help the UK become a global hub for AI, and founded a UK taskforce with a remit of maximising the benefits of the tech while keeping it safe.
But some experts have questioned the UK's leadership credentials in the field.
Downing Street's post pointed out that leading AI firm DeepMind was founded in the UK more than a decade ago, while OpenAI and Anthropic AI both opened their first international office here.
However, DeepMind was sold in 2014 to US giant Google and some experts have suggested it is easier for tech start-ups to grow in the US.
The term AI covers computer systems able to do tasks that would normally need human intelligence.
This includes chatbots able to understand questions and respond with human-like answers, and systems capable of recognising objects in pictures.

 

[najaB]

Whoops:

No 10 suggests UK still EU member in tweet gaffe

A now-deleted post said the UK "is home to twice as many AI companies as any other EU country".

www.bbc.co.uk

Any intelligence in No 10 is definitely artificial...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Since the referendum back in 2016, we seem to have become more racist than ever before.

Or maybe what's actually happening is that UK society has become much less racist than it was - say, 30-40 years ago, and therefore incidents of racism that in past decades would have been all but ignored as normal, today attract considerable media attention because most people recognise that they are abnormal.

By the way, I notice you explicitly say 'more racist than EVER before'. Do you seriously believe that the UK in 2023 is more racist than it was in - say - 1850, or in 1800?

For example, there is the Windrush scandal, the ongoing racism in cricket, and most recently, homophobia and racism in the London Fire Brigade and Avon and Somerset Police.

None of those prove that racism is greater today than it used to be. To do that, you'd need to compare with how much racism existed and how it was dealt with in times past.

 

[Richard Scott]

Any intelligence in No 10 is definitely artificial...

Bit of a daft statement. I may or may not have agreed with policies of whoever is in no. 10 but, in my living memory, I couldn't say that they lacked intelligence.

 

[Wynd]

Bit of a daft statement. I may or may not have agreed with policies of whoever is in no. 10 but, in my living memory, I couldn't say that they lacked intelligence.

No, its competence, real world expereince, and compassion that is missing.

 

[najaB]

Bit of a daft statement. I may or may not have agreed with policies of whoever is in no. 10 but, in my living memory, I couldn't say that they lacked intelligence.

They're not demonstrating much in the way of interpersonal or political intelligence at the moment.

 

[edwin_m]

Intelligence is the ability to do intelligence tests. It doesn't say very much about the ability to get things done in the real world.

 

[KGX]

Must say. I haven’t travelled on Eurostar since the passport rule change, due to Covid etc. I have now & I was expecting the worst.

What a complete exaggeration the stories around Brexit causing delays have been. The guy waiting to stamp the passports looked utterly bored, perhaps because he had no queue for his section. The bottle necks are where they have always been. I’m shocked at how much fake news we are fed. The main problem is the passport gates are awful. I’m sure these are different gates to when I used to use the service often.

 

[pennine]

They're not demonstrating much in the way of interpersonal or political intelligence at the moment.

* claps * hear, hear!

 

[Dent]

What a complete exaggeration the stories around Brexit causing delays have been. The guy waiting to stamp the passports looked utterly bored, perhaps because he had no queue for his section. The bottle necks are where they have always been. I’m shocked at how much fake news we are fed.

So just because you were lucky enough not to experience a delay on one occasion, that proves that no one has ever experienced any delay and any report of anyone experiencing a delay must be "fake news"?

 

[najaB]

So just because you were lucky enough not to experience a delay on one occasion, that proves that no one has ever experienced any delay and any report of anyone experiencing a delay must be "fake news"?

And the numerous reports of people being stuck in passport control for hours were figments of their imaginations.

 

[AlterEgo]

Worth remembering there are fewer people using Eurostar because of capacity constraints in the passenger hall imposed by the additional passport checks.

 

[KGX]

Worth remembering there are fewer people using Eurostar because of capacity constraints in the passenger hall imposed by the additional passport checks.

The additional passport checks consists of a person at a stand, waiting for people to get through the e gates. As usual the passenger hall was totally full and security/passport were processing two trains at the same time. It’s an eye opener how much rubbish gets put out there.

 

[AlterEgo]

The additional passport checks consists of a person at a stand, waiting for people to get through the e gates. As usual the passenger hall was totally full and security/passport were processing two trains at the same time. It’s an eye opener how much rubbish gets put out there.

But that is affecting the throughput at the halls, hence the lower capacity and average higher prices. the whole point of the reduced capacity is to stop the crushing and queues that would otherwise happen.

 

[Dent]

It’s an eye opener how much rubbish gets put out there.

What are you claiming to be "rubbish", and on what basis?

One passenger being lucky enough not to be delayed one occasion is obviously not a basis to deem all reports of anyone ever suffering any delay to be "rubbish".

 

[class ep-09]

Must say. I haven’t travelled on Eurostar since the passport rule change, due to Covid etc. I have now & I was expecting the worst.

What a complete exaggeration the stories around Brexit causing delays have been. The guy waiting to stamp the passports looked utterly bored, perhaps because he had no queue for his section. The bottle necks are where they have always been. I’m shocked at how much fake news we are fed. The main problem is the passport gates are awful. I’m sure these are different gates to when I used to use the service often.

Just wait till you collect number of EU stamps in your new blue passport , then border official must check if you overstayed EU’s welcome .

That will take a while …

In my friends case , being regular traveller , 7-10min on average - his words not mine.

That’s one person

Multiply by large of number of passengers and you will be in the queue for good part of couple of hours or more.

Funnily enough EU passport holders are waved through.

 

[Mojo]

Just wait till you collect number of EU stamps in your new blue passport , then border official must check if you overstayed EU’s welcome .

That will take a while …

In my friends case , being regular traveller , 7-10min on average - his words not mine.

That’s one person

Multiply by large of number of passengers and you will be in the queue for good part of couple of hours or more.

Funnily enough EU passport holders are waved through.

That sounds like pettiness on behalf of a specific country or border guard than anything symptomatic of a wider issue and of course highlights the inflexibility of certain countries, unlike the UK which, displays more pragmatism and allows those with passports issued by EU countries to use the electronic passport gates; a situation only replicated by a small number of Schengen countries such as France [who then follow up with an immediate passport stamp rather than flicking through the passport].

 

[alex397]

That sounds like pettiness on behalf of a specific country or border guard than anything symptomatic of a wider issue and of course highlights the inflexibility of certain countries.

Maybe it does show pettiness of those countries, although we are treated no differently to any other “third countries” which we now are. We didn’t have to worry about it as much before.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just wait till you collect number of EU stamps in your new blue passport , then border official must check if you overstayed EU’s welcome .

That will take a while …

In my friends case , being regular traveller , 7-10min on average - his words not mine.

That’s one person

Multiply by large of number of passengers and you will be in the queue for good part of couple of hours or more.

Funnily enough EU passport holders are waved through.

I’ve got loads of stamps. I’m in the middle of a sub-24h stay in Amsterdam right now.

7-10 min average is codswallop.

 

[RT4038]

As a seasoned traveller / former overseas resident well versed in this problem - the best way is to be prepared: seek out the entry stamp that the officer is going to be looking for before you arrive at the desk, and point it out. Doh!

 

[najaB]

I’ve got loads of stamps.

How many of them were acquired on entry to the EU before February 2020?

 

[Dent]

As a seasoned traveller / former overseas resident well versed in this problem - the best way is to be prepared: seek out the entry stamp that the officer is going to be looking for before you arrive at the desk, and point it out. Doh!

And how exactly does that prevent the queue in front of you from delaying your journey?