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There are threats, a number of members with tension within the U.K., and not much sign of those tensions being quelled, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and the rise of the far-right in England, what if England becomes tired of funding the rest?
There are threats, a number of members with tension within the U.K., and not much sign of those tensions being quelled, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and the rise of the far-right in England, what if England becomes tired of funding the rest?
There are threats, a number of members with tension within the U.K., and not much sign of those tensions being quelled, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and the rise of the far-right in England, what if England becomes tired of funding the rest?
It can declare independence! But don't expect the rest of England to allow FOM to continue. Far too much talent is already drawn in to London from everywhere else. And "cross-border" second home ownership would also come under extreme pressure.
It can declare independence! But don't expect the rest of England to allow FOM to continue. Far too much talent is already drawn in to London from everywhere else. And "cross-border" second home ownership would also come under extreme pressure.
Good . London will rejoin EU and have all talent it wants from there .
Holiday homes ownership should not be a problem too - much prefer home in South of France than Skegness .
There are threats, a number of members with tension within the U.K., and not much sign of those tensions being quelled, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and the rise of the far-right in England, what if England becomes tired of funding the rest?
Yes, but I think that a good number of those who advocated leaving the EU were totally aware of this, as were a lot of the people who agreed with them and voted to leave.
It's not a mistake, it's an inevitable outcome from the way things were done, from the way that the "hard Brexit" was the choice of the government and this was supported by many people.
Equally, many of us who voted to remain in the EU knew that this was going to be the likely outcome, and it was only one of the reasons we voted the way we did.
It just happens that a good number of people who voted to leave the EU didn't think about what they were doing properly and now appear to be "surprised" by the outcome. It's not surprising in the least.
Yes, but I think that a good number of those who advocated leaving the EU were totally aware of this, as were a lot of the people who agreed with them and voted to leave.
It's not a mistake, it's an inevitable outcome from the way things were done, from the way that the "hard Brexit" was the choice of the government and this was supported by many people.
Equally, many of us who voted to remain in the EU knew that this was going to be the likely outcome, and it was only one of the reasons we voted the way we did.
It just happens that a good number of people who voted to leave the EU didn't think about what they were doing properly and now appear to be "surprised" by the outcome. It's not surprising in the least.
Yes, I'm sure many of us have friends like my friend Bob, older than me, white, Scottish, living in London, voted leave in 2016. A few months ago he joined the SNP because he hoped for Scottish independence and the possibility of an EU passport. I don't think that's going to happen! Be careful what you vote for ...... he often asks for my advice but frequently doesn't take it, so I get to say "I told you so" quite a lot!
As what I posted in the other Brexit thread a long time ago, it does appear that it is not a migration/immigration problem we have, but rather a racism problem.
Recent instances have seen racism in cricket, the London Fire Brigade, and Buckingham Palace to name but a few. This follows on from the well known historical instances of racism such as:
The Met's handling of the Stephen Lawrence murder (it was the 30th anniversary the other day) where the inquiry into it had branded the Met having "institutionalised racism".
Eric Clapton's racist diatribe on stage when he "performed" in Birmingham. Combined with David Bowie's comments, and with Steve Severin and Siouxsie Sioux from Siouxsie and the Banshees wearing Nazi Swastika armbands, this lead to the Rock Against Racism movement.
The fatal heart attack that Dorothy Croce (a black woman) had after a swarm of Met officers (mainly if not all white) bursted into her home without warning. This was the trigger point for the Brixton riots in 1985.
The points system that Australia uses (the Government pledges allegiance to Charlie Windsor) was found to be racist when an academic study was done around 10 years ago as it does not help but discriminates against the indigenous population - the Aborigines (who we forcibly evicted from their land when we invaded and took over as part of imperialism and empire building).
Although only a brief overview above, it does demonstrate that we have a racism problem. The Leave side appears to have been drowned out by those who are neo-Nazis and hardcore racists.
As what I posted in the other Brexit thread a long time ago, it does appear that it is not a migration/immigration problem we have, but rather a racism problem.
Recent instances have seen racism in cricket, the London Fire Brigade, and Buckingham Palace to name but a few. This follows on from the well known historical instances of racism such as:
The Met's handling of the Stephen Lawrence murder (it was the 30th anniversary the other day) where the inquiry into it had branded the Met having "institutionalised racism".
Eric Clapton's racist diatribe on stage when he "performed" in Birmingham. Combined with David Bowie's comments, and with Steve Severin and Siouxsie Sioux from Siouxsie and the Banshees wearing Nazi Swastika armbands, this lead to the Rock Against Racism movement.
The fatal heart attack that Dorothy Croce (a black woman) had after a swarm of Met officers (mainly if not all white) bursted into her home without warning. This was the trigger point for the Brixton riots in 1985.
The points system that Australia uses (the Government pledges allegiance to Charlie Windsor) was found to be racist when an academic study was done around 10 years ago as it does not help but discriminates against the indigenous population - the Aborigines (who we forcibly evicted from their land when we invaded and took over as part of imperialism and empire building).
Although only a brief overview above, it does demonstrate that we have a racism problem.
No it doesn't. The historical instances of racism from 30-40 years ago that you quote demonstrate that there was a problem with racism at the time that those instances occurred, but something having happened 30 years ago by itself tells you almost nothing about the situation today. The points system that you quote from 10 years ago in Australia might well demonstrate that there was a racism problem in Australia 10 years ago, but that has nothing to do with the UK today. Others of your examples are isolated and may well demonstrate a small number of people acting in a racist way, but don't necessarily demonstrate any significant or systematic problem. And in the case of Buckingham Palace, as far as I'm aware there is no confirmed actual racism - merely one or two incidents based on which various people have alleged racism (but it hasn't been proven).
Really? I've seen lots of arguments on this thread on the leave side. But I can't recall seeing anything either in this thread or recently in mainstream politics on the leave side that demonstrates Nazism or hardcore racism. (Although I don't doubt that a small minority of those who voted leave have unpleasant opinions). I think you're basically making that up about neo-Nazis.
I'm surprised that they haven't got a significant party in favour of English independence.
From a purely financial point of view, I don't understand why the English aren't more frustrated about this, especially as some of that money is going to solve social problems that are created within the other nations. Why are English taxpayers paying for the Scottish NHS or Northern Ireland policing?
From a purely financial point of view, I don't understand why the English aren't more frustrated about this, especially as some of that money is going to solve social problems that are created within the other nations. Why are English taxpayers paying for the Scottish NHS or Northern Ireland policing?
No it doesn't. The historical instances of racism from 30-40 years ago that you quote demonstrate that there was a problem with racism at the time that those instances occurred, but something having happened 30 years ago by itself tells you almost nothing about the situation today. The points system that you quote from 10 years ago in Australia might well demonstrate that there was a racism problem in Australia 10 years ago, but that has nothing to do with the UK today. Others of your examples are isolated and may well demonstrate a small number of people acting in a racist way, but don't necessarily demonstrate any significant or systematic problem. And in the case of Buckingham Palace, as far as I'm aware there is no confirmed actual racism - merely one or two incidents based on which various people have alleged racism (but it hasn't been proven).
Really? I've seen lots of arguments on this thread on the leave side. But I can't recall seeing anything either in this thread or recently in mainstream politics on the leave side that demonstrates Nazism or hardcore racism. (Although I don't doubt that a small minority of those who voted leave have unpleasant opinions). I think you're basically making that up about neo-Nazis.
I'm surprised that they haven't got a significant party in favour of English independence.
From a purely financial point of view, I don't understand why the English aren't more frustrated about this, especially as some of that money is going to solve social problems that are created within the other nations. Why are English taxpayers paying for the Scottish NHS or Northern Ireland policing?
The tory government wont fund the NHS, HS2, Benefits, anything you care to mention, properly. A viewpoint that saw fit to tax spare bedrooms and hot pasty's.
A mindset that hated funding the EU to the tune of £350m a week despite us getting far more than that out of it.
And yet, these same people are apparently delighted that Scotland, or Wales, are supposedly receiving massive amounts of supposedly English taxpayer money...
Its an argument that doesn't pass the first test of consistency.
The only possible way this would make any sense is if Whitehall actually made far more out of Scotland and Wales than they give out. Is there any evidence for this?
Well yes, as it happens.
£350B in oil.
£80B in energy revenues in the next few years alone flowing from Scotland to England.
A massive boost to the UK balance of trade through exports, and economic activity generally, Whisky being just one small case in point.
Look at the UK balance of trade without Scotland, Wales and NI and you get a weaker set of figures, and consequently weaker values of Sterling on Forex markets.
This fantasy that England is some benevolent parent doling out to its children, or subordinate partners, is probably as unfounded as the sunlit uplands we have heard so much about.
If Whitehall concluded for a second that it actually lost money on Scotland or Wales, they'd be kicked to the kerb quicker than you could say referendum.
What is said publicly, and privately, are, as ever when it comes to Whitehall, two very different things.
Of course not. I think it's pretty obvious from my post that I have not said anything like what you're asking. I'm very sure that many black people in the UK were discriminated against prior to 1981 (when the Brixton riots happened) but since that's more than 40 years ago, that has very little relevance to the question of how much racism happens today. UK society and culture has drastically changed since 1981.
Taking your other example: Any racism that might exist in Australia is a problem in Australia, not a problem in the UK. Last time I checked, Australia was an independent country over 9000 miles away, and was not the same country as the UK. The fact that King Charles is their monarch doesn't change that. Do you know something different?
Yes, they do appear to be. But Tommy Robinson/the EDL are a tiny minority, almost universally reviled by mainstream society and by almost all politicians on both sides of the Brexit debate, and they have almost no voice or influence outside their own supporters. The fact that they happened to support Leave does NOT justify your claiming, 'The Leave side appears to have been drowned out by those who are neo-Nazis and hardcore racists.'
I'm surprised that they haven't got a significant party in favour of English independence.
From a purely financial point of view, I don't understand why the English aren't more frustrated about this, especially as some of that money is going to solve social problems that are created within the other nations. Why are English taxpayers paying for the Scottish NHS or Northern Ireland policing?
Let's check FullFact - a good and generally impartial place for debunking myths. The following quote was from a fact-checking article written in 2021 (link), which covers the period 2001-2021:
FullFact said:
Since 2001/02, the Scottish government estimates the total amount of spending in or for Scotland exceeds revenues raised in Scotland by between £240 billion and £320 billion (depending on whether North Sea oil revenues are considered to be a Scottish-only or UK-wide revenue stream).
Received a text today saying that from June, it will now cost 30p to send a text and 70p per minute to make a call when in the EU, thanks to the re-introduction of roaming charges.
A relatively small thing, but even still, yet another example of how Brexit is making our lives more difficult and costly.
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I'm surprised that they haven't got a significant party in favour of English independence.
From a purely financial point of view, I don't understand why the English aren't more frustrated about this, especially as some of that money is going to solve social problems that are created within the other nations. Why are English taxpayers paying for the Scottish NHS or Northern Ireland policing?
I'm ambivalent about Scottish independence (in some ways I support it, but then again Scottish MPs are vital to keep the non-Tory count up in Westminster). However, I'm 100% against English independence, and I am English.
England, as a state/province, has a distinct rightwards bias, sadly. The Tories would dominate English politics completely, I suspect, if Scotland, Wales and NI were jettisoned. It would, I suspect, become as dominated by the Tories as, say, Texas or Florida are dominated by Republicans.
The Tories have already been in power way too long (70% of the past 44 years) and without the moderating influence of the rest of the UK, this would increase still further.
Let's check FullFact - a good and generally impartial place for debunking myths. The following quote was from a fact-checking article written in 2021 (link), which covers the period 2001-2021:
Looks to me like the meme you posted, called The Subsidy Myth, is itself perpetuating a pure myth
The primary issues in this whole space is that its incredibly difficult to ascertain a reliable set of numbers.
FullFact can only assess what is publicly available. Namely the GERS figures.
There are a lot of issues with GERS, and I am not alone in saying that. Worse, there is no GER-England, making it impossible to see what's going on in the round.
I don't know how many will be aware of this, but a proportion of the North Sea oil is recorded as geographically un-attributable.
We don't have a full breakdown of Scottish Corp tax receipt's, because companies don't report Uk regional breakdowns. A number of Scottish workers reside in England and vice versa.
The bottom line here is that its multivariable, and GERS makes a good go at guesstimating, but it is unfortunately, not conclusive.
The UK Treasury supply the data for GERS, making the whole thing even more complicated.
The principle of the graphic is correct. Roughly, this is what happens:
Whitehall collect some £75B of Scottish Tax.
£40B is sent to Holyrood.
Whitehall keep £35B for "reserved matters".
Whitehall then borrow an additional £12B odd, and claim its to fund ongoing programmes/spending, then attribute this loss entirely to Holyrood, who of course have no substantial borrowing powers, as legally, that parliament needs to balance its budget.
A very important point, roughly 1/3 of Holyrood's Notional Deficit, (The 12B above), is the Debt interest bill Whitehall has racked up on Holyrood's behalf. Its going to get interesting this year because UK Debt interest has skyrocketed nearly entirely due to Rishi index linking it. Not wise.
Worse still, the Treasury can pay its debt interest bill by making the DMO issue new debt, which it does. Holyrood has to pay up in hard cash, because it does not have the power to conduct deficit financing.
All told this takes Scotland's spending to around the £100b mark, or 10% of UK spending, but only £40B of that is in Holyrood's control.
So when people say Scotland is running a massive deficit, they are talking utter tripe.
Domestic taxation pays for all Scottish spending inside the non-borrowing envelope.
Scotland is a significant exporter and as an independent state would almost certainly get close to balancing its exports and imports.
As ever, its a deeply complex issue. But that doesn't sell papers.
Image correct in principle, needs a bit of an update.
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The primary issues in this whole space is that its incredibly difficult to ascertain a reliable set of numbers.
FullFact can only assess what is publicly available. Namely the GERS figures.
There are a lot of issues with GERS, and I am not alone in saying that. Worse, there is no GER-England, making it impossible to see what's going on in the round.
I don't know how many will be aware of this, but a proportion of the North Sea oil is recorded as geographically un-attributable.
We don't have a full breakdown of Scottish Corp tax receipt's, because companies don't report Uk regional breakdowns. A number of Scottish workers reside in England and vice versa.
The bottom line here is that its multivariable, and GERS makes a good go at guesstimating, but it is unfortunately, not conclusive.
The UK Treasury supply the data for GERS, making the whole thing even more complicated.
The principle of the graphic is correct. Roughly, this is what happens:
Whitehall collect some £75B of Scottish Tax.
£40B is sent to Holyrood.
Whitehall keep £35B for "reserved matters".
Whitehall then borrow an additional £12B odd, and claim its to fund ongoing programmes/spending, then attribute this loss entirely to Holyrood, who of course have no substantial borrowing powers, as legally, that parliament needs to balance its budget.
A very important point, roughly 1/3 of Holyrood's Notional Deficit, (The 12B above), is the Debt interest bill Whitehall has racked up on Holyrood's behalf. Its going to get interesting this year because UK Debt interest has skyrocketed nearly entirely due to Rishi index linking it. Not wise.
Worse still, the Treasury can pay its debt interest bill by making the DMO issue new debt, which it does. Holyrood has to pay up in hard cash, because it does not have the power to conduct deficit financing.
All told this takes Scotland's spending to around the £100b mark, or 10% of UK spending, but only £40B of that is in Holyrood's control.
So when people say Scotland is running a massive deficit, they are talking utter tripe.
Domestic taxation pays for all Scottish spending inside the non-borrowing envelope.
Scotland is a significant exporter and as an independent state would almost certainly get close to balancing its exports and imports.
As ever, its a deeply complex issue. But that doesn't sell papers.
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The UK government is set to abandon its controversial plan to review or scrap all EU-era law by the end of 2023, in a move which has sparked fury among Tory Eurosceptics.
Had this gone ahead many regulations, including safety standards and employment rights, would have gone instantly, which would have seen key protections gone and huge uncertainty for businesses.
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Had this gone ahead many regulations, including safety standards and employment rights, would have gone instantly, which would have seen key protections gone and huge uncertainty for businesses.
Scrapping those laws immediately may pour cold water onto the improving relationship between UK - EU and vice-versa, , a relationship which is tepid but warming slowly.
Received a text today saying that from June, it will now cost 30p to send a text and 70p per minute to make a call when in the EU, thanks to the re-introduction of roaming charges.
Surely some mistake? After all many commenters have told us it would be madness for any phone company to reintroduce roaming charges as all their customers will leave for a company which doesn't have them.
Surely some mistake? After all many commenters have told us it would be madness for any phone company to reintroduce roaming charges as all their customers will leave for a company which doesn't have them.
Surely some mistake? After all many commenters have told us it would be madness for any phone company to reintroduce roaming charges as all their customers will leave for a company which doesn't have them.
A subscription to the Financial Times provides you with the insights and perspective you need to succeed, now.
on.ft.com
Had this gone ahead many regulations, including safety standards and employment rights, would have gone instantly, which would have seen key protections gone and huge uncertainty for businesses.
Cynically, many Tories doubtless want it on ideological grounds, and most of the rest don't care either way; but they realise it's no longer a vote-winner. Might help them lose less badly than if they had gone ahead.
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I definitely got the text. It quoted those charges, unless I got a special (doubtless also relatively expensive) EU Pack.
Presumably the phone company is being charged due to post-Brexit arrangements and they want to pass on those charges to customers.
(Incidentally, I wonder if "EU" in this context includes Ireland?)
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Cynically, many Tories doubtless want it on ideological grounds, and most of the rest don't care either way; but they realise it's no longer a vote-winner. Might help them lose less badly than if they had gone ahead.
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It would take a really fundamentalist Brexiter to welcome roaming charges!
As I understand it, operators do charge each other for their users roaming, Brexit hasn't materially affected that. The difference being that the EU regulations prevented those costs being passed on to the end user.
I think it's arguable whether those costs going on everyone's bills or just those who make trips abroad is the fairer system. I'm not a fundamentalist Brexiteer.
As I understand it, operators do charge each other for their users roaming, Brexit hasn't materially affected that. The difference being that the EU regulations prevented those costs being passed on to the end user.
I think it's arguable whether those costs going on everyone's bills or just those who make trips abroad is the fairer system.
The same kind of argument as "should everyone make a contribution to the costs of the railway or just rail users?" or "should everyone make a contribution towards the costs of universities or just students?" I guess.
I'm definitely an "everyone should pay" person. Spread the cost over more people and it becomes less noticeable.
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