Brexit matters

[Perthsaint]

The cost of living crisis is not due to Brexit

Wrong.

 

[najaB]

Wrong.

I disagree. The cost of living crisis isn't due to Brexit - it's objectively due to other factors such as post-Covid supply chain issues, labour shortages, high energy prices, business uncertainty, and political instability among other factors.

What is true is that Brexit has exacerbated many of the above and reduced our ability to deal with them.

TL;DR - Brexit hasn't caused the crisis, but it has made it much worse than it otherwise would have been.

 

[Perthsaint]

TL;DR - Brexit hasn't caused the crisis, but it has made it much worse than it otherwise would have been.

Brexit caused the crisis. Other factors, some of which you mention, exacerbate it.

 

[najaB]

Brexit caused the crisis. Other factors, some of which you mention, exacerbate it.

It's the other way around - those factors are present in most economies globally, and most economies are struggling. Ours is struggling more than most (of the major economies, probably only Russia is doing worse).

 

[Perthsaint]

It's the other way around.

It isn't. We are struggling more than most because of the underlying cause being brexit.

 

[najaB]

It isn't. We are struggling more than most because of the underlying cause being brexit.

You just said the same thing that I did: our economy is struggling more than most because of Brexit.

 

[E27007]

I disagree. The cost of living crisis isn't due to Brexit - it's objectively due to other factors such as post-Covid supply chain issues, labour shortages, high energy prices, business uncertainty, and political instability among other factors.

What is true is that Brexit has exacerbated many of the above and reduced our ability to deal with them.

Brexit has not reduced our ability to deal with the economic problems, On the contrary, Brexit has enhanced our ability, we are no longer handcuffed and straight-jacketed by the Politburo of Brussels, Economic policies, Interest Rates and Investment can be enacted for the benefit of ourselves, without seeking approval elsewhere

 

[Perthsaint]

On the contrary, Brexit has enhanced our ability, we are no longer handcuffed and straight-jacketed by the Politburo of Brussels, Economic policies, Interest Rates and Investment can be enacted for the benefit of ourselves, without seeking approval elsewhere

So why does our economy perform so poorly? Why is our currency so weak?

(You know the answer is brexit. I know the answer is brexit)

 

[najaB]

On the contrary, Brexit has enhanced our ability, we are no longer handcuffed and straight-jacketed by the Politburo of Brussels, Economic policies, Interest Rates and Investment can be enacted for the benefit of ourselves, without seeking approval elsewhere...

So, how's that going?

Concerningly, it is becoming clear that slow growth will be a persistent problem. The IMF has predicted that economic output will only increase by 0.5% over 2023. This is the lowest level of all countries in the G7. It should be noted that this forecast is more positive than the Bank of England’s predictions of -0.25% for 2023.

Inflation is weighing heavily on growth. UK inflation is now expected to reach 10.5% in 2022, this is an upward revision of 2.7%. The current inflationary pressure is a global event; however, the UK is seeing the highest levels of inflation compared to Europe and the US.

Social Impact

We strive to make a positive difference to society by working in partnership with our industry to address the economic, social, health and environmental issues that matter to us all.

www.igd.com

 

[adrock1976]

I have thought of something how to sort this Brexit mess once and for all.

Being as Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Gibraltar all voted to remain, with England and Wales voting to leave, a far simpler thing that could have been done at the time is for Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Gibraltar still wanting to be part of the EU, with EU law not applying to England and Wales.

This is not really a crazy idea as there has been precedent before, when Greenland (which became part of Denmark's attempts at empire building when they invaded and took over, and is still part of the kingdom of Denmark) no longer wanted to be part of EU law. The same could apply to England and Wales.

 

[Annetts key]

I have thought of something how to sort this Brexit mess once and for all.

Being as Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Gibraltar all voted to remain, with England and Wales voting to leave, a far simpler thing that could have been done at the time is for Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Gibraltar still wanting to be part of the EU, with EU law not applying to England and Wales.

This is not really a crazy idea as there has been precedent before, when Greenland (which became part of Denmark's attempts at empire building when they invaded and took over, and is still part of the kingdom of Denmark) no longer wanted to be part of EU law. The same could apply to England and Wales.

I would agree, except I happen to live in England… So no good to me!

My alternative is that those who wanted brexit should have just exited the E.U. by moving out of Europe altogether (and therefore out of the U.K.). I don’t much care where they went… Maybe they could have joined Trump…

 

[najaB]

This is not really a crazy idea as there has been precedent before, when Greenland (which became part of Denmark's attempts at empire building when they invaded and took over, and is still part of the kingdom of Denmark) no longer wanted to be part of EU law. The same could apply to England and Wales.

The big difference there is that Greenland is physically separated from Denmark by a good few hundred kilometres, and is a legally separate entity from Denmark. The UK is... well, a United Kingdom.

 

[Perthsaint]

The big difference there is that Greenland is physically separated from Denmark by a good few hundred kilometres, and is a legally separate entity from Denmark. The UK is... well, a United Kingdom.

Greenland is one of the three countries which constitute the Kingdom of Denmark. It is no different to any of the four countries which constitute the UK

 

[Enthusiast]

Brexit caused the crisis. Other factors, some of which you mention, exacerbate it.

So why are other nations - including many in the EU - suffering similar problems? If, as suggested, Brexit hampers the UK's ability to deal with these problems, fair enough. Unless you are suggesting that Brexit caused the global crises that are currently being endured (which I think is a bit of a stretch) that doesn't explain why similar problems have been visited on other countries.

So why does our economy perform so poorly? Why is our currency so weak?

(You know the answer is brexit. I know the answer is brexit)

The country's economy performs poorly because its collective productivity is so weak. For many people, work seems to have developed into an optional pursuit rather than a necessary means of earning a living to pay the bills; an imposition imposed by a Draconian government as a form of abuse. This "attitude creep" has been going on for some years but has increased since the ridiculous measures to "combat" Covid were introduced, many of which are still extant. You can also witness this when you examine the uproar that has ensued in some quarters when it is suggested that those claiming Universal Credit must increase the weekly hours they work from 12 to 15. It is as if the government was asking ten year old boys to work in coal mines. Brexit has nothing to do with any of that that.

 

[najaB]

Greenland is one of the three countries which constitute the Kingdom of Denmark. It is no different to any of the four countries which constitute the UK

Sorry, but you are wrong there. Greenland is a self-governing country within the Kingdom of Denmark - they have full autonomy on all matters except those which affect the Kingdom as a whole (e.g. foreign relations). As an example of the degree of autonomy, they have their own diplomatic representation in the United States, China and several other countries.

 

[Perthsaint]

Sorry, but you are wrong there. Greenland is a self-governing country within the Kingdom of Denmark - they have full autonomy on all matters except those which affect the Kingdom as a whole (e.g. foreign relations). As an example of the degree of autonomy, they have their own diplomatic representation in the United States, China and several other countries.

Yes, it's a country within the Kingdom of Denmark. As I said.

 

[najaB]

You can also witness this when you examine the uproar that has ensued in some quarters when it is suggested that those claiming Universal Credit must increase the weekly hours they work from 12 to 15.

Over 40% of people in receipt of Universal Credit are in work, and for many of them the only reason they don't already work more hours is because they have caring responsibilities that prevent them from working more hours.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Sep 2022 ==

Yes, it's a country within the Kingdom of Denmark. As I said.

You also said:

It is no different to any of the four countries which constitute the UK

Which it very much is!

 

[Perthsaint]

Which it very much is!

It very much isn't.

 

[najaB]

It very much isn't.

So I take it then that Scotland is free and able to open an independent diplomatic representative office in Washington with our own ambassador in the same way that Greenland has?

 

[Perthsaint]

So I take it then that Scotland is free and able to open an independent diplomatic representative office in Washington with our own ambassador?

Is that a necessary hallmark of being a country? Do you consider England to be a country?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Brexit caused the crisis. Other factors, some of which you mention, exacerbate it.

Wow, you really are determined to blame Brexit for *everything* even in the face of all evidence to the contrary, aren't you!

Might I ask you, what planet were you living on when Covid happened and the ensuing lockdown forced millions of people to stop working, in the process trashing the Government's budget? And when Putin decided to use energy prices as a weapon? And when some months later Russia invaded Ukraine? Do you really somehow imagine that these kinds of seismic events don't cause huge economic upheaval, completely separate from Brexit?

 

[Perthsaint]

Wow, you really are determined to blame Brexit for *everything* even in the face of all evidence to the contrary, aren't you!

Might I ask you, what planet were you living on when Covid happened and the ensuing lockdown forced millions of people to stop working, in the process trashing the Government's budget? And when Putin decided to use energy prices as a weapon? And when some months later Russia invaded Ukraine? Do you really somehow imagine that these kinds of seismic events don't cause huge economic upheaval, completely separate from Brexit?

Ah, the never-ending desire of brexiters to deflect, deny and indulge in whataboutery.

One day I'll meet a brexiter who takes responsibility for his or her actions. I suspect it won't be anytime soon though.

 

[Yew]

Brexit has not reduced our ability to deal with the economic problems, On the contrary, Brexit has enhanced our ability, we are no longer handcuffed and straight-jacketed by the Politburo of Brussels, Economic policies, Interest Rates and Investment can be enacted for the benefit of ourselves, without seeking approval elsewhere

Or it seems, have the Prime minister give massive handouts to her wealthy backers in lieu of sensible economic policy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2022 ==

The country's economy performs poorly because its collective productivity is so weak. For many people, work seems to have developed into an optional pursuit rather than a necessary means of earning a living to pay the bills; an imposition imposed by a Draconian government as a form of abuse. This "attitude creep" has been going on for some years but has increased since the ridiculous measures to "combat" Covid were introduced, many of which are still extant.

And this change of productivity is entirely the fault of the people in work, doing what they are told to do? And not the fault of highly skilled industrial jobs being replaced by low-skilled, low paid services work?

It's not the people that cause our productivity problem, it's our transition from high quality manufacturing and minerals jobs to low quality employment. In my home town 40 years ago you could get a job at: one of many mines, a shoe factory, a quarry, a brewery and numerous other industrial pursuits. These days most people who still live back home are a Tescos, costa or in the care services. These are necessary jobs, but lack the technical progression opportunities, particularly when companies are more interested in short term profits that long term excellence.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Ah, the never-ending desire of brexiters to deflect, deny and indulge in whataboutery.

Says the person who just replied to my post without actually addressing any of the points I made in it...

One day I'll meet a brexiter who takes responsibility for his or her actions. I suspect it won't be anytime soon though.

Maybe one day, you'll learn to start checking your facts before you post.

(Possibly relevant fact: I voted Remain in the referendum).

I think you'll find that the difference between me and you is that I'm realistic about what things have caused what, and I don't go out of my way to blame my pet peeve on every evil that has happened in the World.

 

[Perthsaint]

I think you'll find that the difference between me and you is that I'm realistic about what things have caused what, and I don't go out of my way to blame my pet peeve on every evil that has happened in the World.

I think you'll find the difference is that I understand Economics.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I think you'll find the difference is that I understand Economics.

I'm afraid I see no evidence in your posts so far of any understanding of economics So far, all you appear to have posted are unsubstantiated, and in some cases, obviously untrue, assertions. And when people call you out on your inaccuracies, instead of addressing their replies, you just make even more wild assertions.

Might I ask what qualifications in economics you have?

 

[Perthsaint]

I'm afraid I see no evidence in your posts so far of any understanding of economics So far, all you appear to have posted are unsubstantiated, and in some cases, obviously untrue, assertions. And when people call you out on your inaccuracies, instead of addressing their replies, you just make even more wild assertions.

Might I ask what qualifications in economics you have?

Rather more than you. As is evident from your posts.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Rather more than you. As is evident from your posts.

So what qualifications *do* you have?

 

[Perthsaint]

So what qualifications *do* you have?

As I've said, rather more than you. What are your qualifications?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

As I've said, rather more than you. What are your qualifications?

I have an 'A' level in economics, and I've spent a total of around 15 years running various businesses.

See - it's really not hard to answer a direct question when someone asks you. All you have to do is, type out the answer on your keyboard (or phone keypad).

Now - since you keep bragging about how much better an understanding of economics you (supposedly) have than I do, how about you try doing the same thing: Answer the question! What are your qualifications?