Brexit matters

[najaB]

I wonder how "secular Muslims" as you describe are viewed by the majority of Imams in Britain?

As normal people.

Radical imams are, like the general population, the exception rather than the role.

 

[johncrossley]

I think a main reason for people to not travel to the UK is that EU ID cards won’t be accepted anymore from November. Most people I know don’t have a passport and would need one specifically for the UK which is expensive

Ireland will still accept EU ID cards. You don't need a passport to fly from Ireland to Britain. Potential loophole.

 

[class ep-09]

Another brexit benefit is …
Complete collapse if UK exports to Republic of Ireland .
From trade surplus 4th quarter last year ( and all years before ) to trade massive deficit in the 1st quarter this year .

Teething problems ?

I do not think so .

 

[madjack]

--

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if I would ever be admitted to Finland, as I can sing their national anthem "Maamme" off by heart, having seen it on YouTube many times....

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2021 ==

I don't see any problem with Northern Ireland, as the "Green" half bear some allegiance to Ireland and the "Orange" half bear some allegiance to The House of Orange in The Netherlands, both of which are EU countries....

 

[JonasB]

I wonder if I would ever be admitted to Finland, as I can sing their national anthem "Maamme" off by heart, having seen it on YouTube many times....

In both languages?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has anyone mentioned the post-Brexit situation that seems to affect the position of the "Musical Chairs Monarchy" of this country. The Netherlands had a go then it was the turn of the Germans, so I wonder which country in Europe still in the EU whose turn is next due will now be feeling somewhat thwarted...

 

[gysev]

Yes, EVERYONE in England is TOTALLY racist and TOTALLY negative towards EU citizens, including the 60% of Londoners (say) who voted to remain. And there is ABSOLUTELY no racism anywhere in the EU.

The EU has already decided that it's going to introduce a border precheck for Brits. Do you therefore advise us not to travel to Sweden?

Who said that?

The precheck to enter the EU is planned since years and was not designed for Brits only. However, you left, remember? The UK didn't want to accept any form of freedom of movement - fair enough, sovereignty and all that - this means that you will be treated as any other non-EU country. No sinister plan by creepy EU officials, just the EU being, well, sovereign...

This means more restrictions to travel and extra costs for everyone. If you think it is worth it, fine by me, enjoy Sweden - it's magnificent. But I decided that - for me - it is not worth it, so as it is now I won't be touring the UK anytime soon again - and I regret that, despite the one narrow minded idiot that crossed my path.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes, EVERYONE in England is TOTALLY racist and TOTALLY negative towards EU citizens, including the 60% of Londoners (say) who voted to remain. And there is ABSOLUTELY no racism anywhere in the EU.

The EU has already decided that it's going to introduce a border precheck for Brits. Do you therefore advise us not to travel to Sweden?

Unfortunately it takes only a few bad apples to spoil the barrel.

Someone within the EU can visit 26 other countries without a pre-check, making them less likely to visit the one where that is needed. And us in the UK have to undergo this paperwork to visit anywhere.

 

[najaB]

Yes, EVERYONE in England is TOTALLY racist and TOTALLY negative towards EU citizens, including the 60% of Londoners (say) who voted to remain. And there is ABSOLUTELY no racism anywhere in the EU.

Nobody claimed that. But it only takes a few incidents to create the perception that such bigotry exists. And it is much easier to lose a positive image than it is to shake a negative one.

 

[madjack]

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[gysev]

I look forward to the day that a gay Swede feels comfortable moving in with their partner into a Hungarian village.

Or in a DUP-village for that matter. Again, nobody said something about racist Brits. It is just a simple fact: I can choose among 30* European countries to visit without any restriction, so why should I choose the UK for a holiday?

*There are non-EU states that give me the same rights, like Iceland, Switserland, Norway...

 

[johncrossley]

In addition, some non-EU states in the Balkans allow entry with EU ID cards.

 

[najaB]

The point I was challenging was equating leaving the EU with such bigotry.

Are you denying that the reason that a not-insubstantial number of people voted to leave the EU was because of xenophobia? Everyone knows that those people are in the minority, but they do exist and they have been causing trouble.

As with most things, the reality isn't as important as the perception. All it takes to put tourists off is one or two incidents like this being reported in their local media: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/italian-romanian-york-xenophobic-letters-brexit-276907/

 

[madjack]

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[najaB]

But yes, perceptions matter, of course. I certainly have no plans to travel to the EU at the moment - would rather go somewhere where I feel more welcome.

From what I've seen and experienced there's not much in the way of hostility aimed toward UK citizens in most EU countries. It's more a sense of confusion and, to some extent, pity.

 

[SouthernR]

What is the point of asking who is in favour of re-joining the EU? It's not an option, and won't be for decades, until we have a government that can be believed and trusted. Even if it were possible, who wants to go through those debates again? Unfortunately, we have to accept that the self-destruct button has been pressed.

 

[class ep-09]

What is the point of asking who is in favour of re-joining the EU? It's not an option, and won't be for decades, until we have a government that can be believed and trusted. Even if it were possible, who wants to go through those debates again? Unfortunately, we have to accept that the self-destruct button has been pressed.

Perhaps rejoining is off the table for years to come but something more sensible than the current “oven ready deal” , CU + SM ( or “Norway” style ) deal could be pushed through.
Brexiters know , the current **** show is bad but they are afraid loosing face and admit it.
To help them to save the face ( and get them on board towards SM + CU) we should not tell them how wrong they were, but point towards the politicians that made the mess so they can be blamed .
At work I stopped having exchanges about rights or wrongs of leaving the EU and started discussing consequences , pointing towards BoJo and co as culprits of the whole mess .
And it works .

 

[daodao]

What is the point of asking who is in favour of re-joining the EU? It's not an option, and won't be for decades

Whatever the view this side of the English Channel, it takes two to tango. Given that the UK only managed to join the then EEC at the third attempt, after 2 French vetoes, any attempt to rejoin the EU (should it be made) is likely to be black-balled.

There is a widespread view in Europe that the EU is better off without perfidious Albion.

This article from 2014 (2 years before Brexit) written by Michel Rocard, former French PM, exemplifies this view. It is entitled:

"A French message to Britain: get out of Europe before you wreck it".

A French message to Britain: get out of Europe before you wreck it | Michel Rocard | The Guardian

 

[REVUpminster]

There is a widespread view in Europe that the EU is better off without perfidious Albion.

This article from 2014 (2 years before Brexit) written by Michel Rocard, former French PM, entitled "A French message to Britain: get out of Europe before you wreck it", exemplifies this view.

A French message to Britain: get out of Europe before you wreck it | Michel Rocard | The Guardian

The French have never wanted Britain in the EC/EU going back to De Gaulle because of the economic rivalry and the French language being undermined.

The EC was constructed to stop Germany and France going to war again. Germany had been bombed to destruction whereas cities like Paris were relatively unscathed. So the EC was and as the EU is built to suit the Germans and French and the Benelux countries and Italy added.

Britons were given two referendums, one to stay in the EC, and one to stay in the EU. We should have had referendum like Ireland and other EC countries regarding the creation of the EU from the Maastricht treaty. If we had, none of the last 30 years of unrest would have happened.

As for other EU countries pitying us for leaving is really for themselves as we were the bulwark between France and Germany.

 

[gysev]

As for other EU countries pitying us for leaving is really for themselves as we were the bulwark between France and Germany.

It's not really pitying. Most people here are looking in amazement to what has happened and don't understand it.

 

[daodao]

It's not really pitying. Most people here are looking in amazement to what has happened and don't understand it.

I note that some EU leaders are now calling for Hungary to be expelled from the EU.

In a very tense, and at times emotional, European summit, EU leaders joined forces against Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán over his government's new anti-LGBT law, with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte going as far as suggesting Hungary should leave the bloc if it doesn't agree with the EU's core values.

EU leaders blast Viktor Orbán over anti-LGBT bill during tense summit

EU leaders joined forces to criticise the Hungarian Prime Minister, with the Dutch PM even suggesting Hungary should leave the bloc if it doesn't agree with EU values. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

 

[class ep-09]

As for other EU countries pitying us for leaving is really for themselves as we were the bulwark between France and Germany.

Rather between EU and US

 

[RT4038]

Perhaps rejoining is off the table for years to come but something more sensible than the current “oven ready deal” , CU + SM ( or “Norway” style ) deal could be pushed through.
Brexiters know , the current **** show is bad but they are afraid loosing face and admit it.
To help them to save the face ( and get them on board towards SM + CU) we should not tell them how wrong they were, but point towards the politicians that made the mess so they can be blamed .
At work I stopped having exchanges about rights or wrongs of leaving the EU and started discussing consequences , pointing towards BoJo and co as culprits of the whole mess .
And it works .

I think it unlikely that there will be any rapprochement until the main characters (on both sides) are well off the stage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2021 ==

I note that some EU leaders are now calling for Hungary to be expelled from the EU.

EU leaders blast Viktor Orbán over anti-LGBT bill during tense summit

EU leaders joined forces to criticise the Hungarian Prime Minister, with the Dutch PM even suggesting Hungary should leave the bloc if it doesn't agree with EU values. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

I hardly think that the reason is any cause for celebration. However, it does shine a light on the importance that some members place on compliance with 'core values' (which smacks of political control) rather than a trading association. One of the core values of Brexit?

 

[johncrossley]

Fidesz may not always be in power in Hungary. Like Trump will not always be US President. Throwing out Hungary because of one particular government would be premature. Also, public opinion in Hungary still largely supports EU membership.

 

[najaB]

Fidesz may not always be in power in Hungary. Like Trump will not always be US President. Throwing out Hungary because of one particular government would be premature. Also, public opinion in Hungary still largely supports EU membership.

The 'threat' to throw Hungary out of the EU is just the usual tactic of laying the worst possible scenario out on the table with no intention to actually follow through with it. If nothing else it gives the opposition in Hungary a rallying point.

 

[Annetts key]

I hardly think that the reason is any cause for celebration. However, it does shine a light on the importance that some members place on compliance with 'core values' (which smacks of political control) rather than a trading association. One of the core values of Brexit?

The EU was always about more than just a trading association. There were always some core values. Would you trade with someone who did not share your core values, for example most people agree that slavery is not acceptable, so would not trade with people who have slavery as part of their business. Where is your line?

 

[najaB]

Would you trade with someone who did not share your core values, for example most people agree that slavery is not acceptable, so would not trade with people who have slavery as part of their business.

*cough* China *cough* Uyghurs*cough*

 

[Annetts key]

*cough* China *cough* Uyghurs*cough*

Myself, I do try to avoid buying items made in China, but it is really hard work. Especially as not all shops/suppliers state where items were made. But this is going off topic so I’ll stop now.

 

[317 forever]

What is the point of asking who is in favour of re-joining the EU? It's not an option, and won't be for decades, until we have a government that can be believed and trusted. Even if it were possible, who wants to go through those debates again? Unfortunately, we have to accept that the self-destruct button has been pressed.

Furthermore, there would be the question of the terms on which we would aim to rejoin. It seems unlikely that we would secure all the same opt-outs such as joining the Euro. And if this is a pre-condition of rejoining, any such referendum would almost certainly lead to a No vote.