Brexit matters

[alex397]

On the subject of EU visitors, what are people’s thoughts on how brexit will affect our tourism industry. Any effects so far have been masked by COVID19, but some parts of our country used to get large numbers of tourists from abroad, including very significant numbers from some EU countries.

If getting here is perceived as too much trouble and they go elsewhere, that will affect the long term local economy in parts of the tourism industry that are affected.

I’m concerned about East Kent. This received a lot of day trippers from France, mostly groups of school children. You could see them spending lots of money in town centres, mostly the city of Canterbury. Will it be as easy for people on day trips to come here? Especially if school children are involved. Will they want to risk getting stuck in the traffic which was big news back in winter? (the traffic isn’t as bad now, but those images would have stuck with people). Will there be more bureaucracy and costs involved?

The coach park in Canterbury could often be seen overflowing with coaches of school trips and holiday tours , the majority of them foreign registered, mainly from France and Belgium, as well as the Netherlands, Germany and Austria. I do wonder if I’ll ever see such a remarkably busy coach park again. Canterbury’s reputation has also been tarnished by a racist gang attack on a German student who has been left permanently disabled, in 2019, which I think will be off putting to some.

There are also many English language schools in east Kent which had students staying here from the EUsuch as in Canterbury and Broadstairs. I haven’t properly researched how these will be affected.

I think a main reason for people to not travel to the UK is that EU ID cards won’t be accepted anymore from November. Most people I know don’t have a passport and would need one specifically for the UK which is expensive

Interesting. I never knew about this. When Covid is less of an issue, and we want to be encouraging tourists back to the UK, we need all the help we can get. This will be another obstacle for visitors. There will be a point when some potential visitors just won’t want the extra hassle and just go to a country that is easier to enter.

 

[najaB]

There will be a point when some potential visitors just won’t want the extra hassle and just go to a country that is easier to enter.

Exactly. People who have a specific reason to visit the UK - e.g. Harry Potter fans, cultural events, bucket listers - will continue to do so. What we will lose a lot of is the "fun weekend away" and spur of the moment visitors. I suspect that we'll also lose a fair amount of the backpacking/hiking crowd: the UK was already seen as being expensive, for some people the hassle of getting/renewing a passport will be a deal-breaker.

 

[REVUpminster]

Some of the language schools in Torbay have closed, some going bust. The ones that had teenagers as their main customer seem the most affected.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I’m concerned about East Kent. This received a lot of day trippers from France, mostly groups of school children. You could see them spending lots of money in town centres, mostly the city of Canterbury. Will it be as easy for people on day trips to come here? Especially if school children are involved. Will they want to risk getting stuck in the traffic which was big news back in winter? (the traffic isn’t as bad now, but those images would have stuck with people). Will there be more bureaucracy and costs involved?

The coach park in Canterbury could often be seen overflowing with coaches of school trips and holiday tours , the majority of them foreign registered, mainly from France and Belgium, as well as the Netherlands, Germany and Austria. I do wonder if I’ll ever see such a remarkably busy coach park again. Canterbury’s reputation has also been tarnished by a racist gang attack on a German student who has been left permanently disabled, in 2019, which I think will be off putting to some.

There are also many English language schools in east Kent which had students staying here from the EUsuch as in Canterbury and Broadstairs. I haven’t properly researched how these will be affected.

If France was one of the countries who refused to admit people from Britain entering their country, why then should they feel it acceptable to let young people as you describe enter Britain, citing their own admission that the Covid-19 virus situation is Britain is something they wanted to keep their own citizens away from.

 

[alex397]

If France was one of the countries who refused to admit people from Britain entering their country, why then should they feel it acceptable to let young people as you describe enter Britain, citing their own admission that the Covid-19 virus situation is Britain is something they wanted to keep their own citizens away from

This thread is about Brexit and our future relationship with the continent. Covid is a different matter, and hopefully if and when Covid calms down the French won’t want to restrict their citizens from visiting the UK.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This thread is about Brexit and our future relationship with the continent. Covid is a different matter, and hopefully if and when Covid calms down the French won’t want to restrict their citizens from visiting the UK.

Since it was to a posting on the Brexit thread from your good self that I responded, I felt that the matter of young French people wishing to come to Britain when their own Government had imposed an embargo of British people visiting France, was worthy of comment.

Incidentally, I am aware of what the Brexit thread so entails, as it was I who launched the thread quite some time ago.

 

[najaB]

If France was one of the countries who refused to admit people from Britain entering their country, why then should they feel it acceptable to let young people as you describe enter Britain, citing their own admission that the Covid-19 virus situation is Britain is something they wanted to keep their own citizens away from.

Temporary Covid-related travel restrictions have little or nothing to do with post-Brexit immigration policy.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Temporary Covid-related travel restrictions have little or nothing to do with post-Brexit immigration policy.

In the situation that @alex395 so described, it most certainly had. Those young French people whose monies fill the coffers of the described area should have been deterred from their wish to travel.

Whether you like it or not, the situation so prevailing was a French Governmental decision against a non-EU country, not one of a British Governmental decision therefore it is Brexit related.

Incidentally, Brexit-related, the French Government do not seem unduly concerned with getting rid of their illegal immigrants from non-EU countries over the English Channel to a non-EU country.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Do UK passports get stamps upon entry and exit of the EU?

Mine did when I went to Malaga in Spain at the beginning of June this year.

 

[johncrossley]

Mine did when I went to Malaga in Spain at the beginning of June this year.

Don't you have an Italian passport?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Don't you have an Italian passport?

Not yet but I will do soon. For now just a British passport.

 

[najaB]

Whether you like it or not, the situation so prevailing was a French Governmental decision against a non-EU country, not one of a British Governmental decision therefore it is Brexit related.

By that definition, everything that has occurred since June 23rd, 2016 is Brexit-related.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

By that definition, everything that has occurred since June 23rd, 2016 is Brexit-related.

Britain was still a member of the EU long after June 23rd 2016, so I don't know what point you are trying to make.

 

[alex397]

In the situation that @alex395 so described, it most certainly had. Those young French people whose monies fill the coffers of the described area should have been deterred from their wish to travel.

Whether you like it or not, the situation so prevailing was a French Governmental decision against a non-EU country, not one of a British Governmental decision therefore it is Brexit related.

Incidentally, Brexit-related, the French Government do not seem unduly concerned with getting rid of their illegal immigrants from non-EU countries over the English Channel to a non-EU country.

Again, I really don’t think this is related. I’m questioning whether it will be as easy for French school groups to visit the UK once things return to some sort of normality. I’m talking about the changes Brexit has made, not the Covid restrictions. Of course, the French seemed to be making a point to fit their agenda back in the winter and I didn’t completely agree with their decision.
But once Covid is more manageable, I want to know what effect Brexit, not Covid, will have on the day trip market from French school groups.

Also, asylum seekers are not ‘illegal’. They have a right to claim asylum in any country, even if they have passed through a ‘safe’ country.
You seem to have the impression that asylum seekers are all heading through France to get to the UK, which is not completely true. France has taken in a lot of asylum seekers, and there have been incidents recently where those asylum seekers heading to the UK have been picked up from the sea and taken back to France, so the French have made attempts to stop crossings.
Also, I wonder if the UK would be concerned if asylum seekers were heading through the UK to reach another country. Would we be making an effort to make sure they all stay here? I think not.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Indeed. Before Covid, I visited the UK at least two times per year and I always travelled by train. Now I feel the trouble and extra costs involved just are not worth it. There are plenty of other interesting places to visit in Europe where I am not called "a nasty EU" (as I was told in 2019 by a "nice" older gentleman). Unfortunately, I am not the only one who feels that way.

Lucky you, I'm stuck here and have to put up with people like that.

If I was European I would look to the other 20 or so countries that actively want me to visit before arranging all the paperwork to visit the UK. The passport issue is interesting and not one I had considered for inbound tourism.

I hope once things settle the extra organisation and paperwork with going to Europe won't deter me as I have so many places on my bucket list I want to visit.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Also, asylum seekers are not ‘illegal’. They have a right to claim asylum in any country, even if they have passed through a ‘safe’ country.

Also, I wonder if the UK would be concerned if asylum seekers were heading through the UK to reach another country. Would we be making an effort to make sure they all stay here? I think not.

Since the vast majority of these people are Muslim, why do they not seek Iran if they are Shia Muslims or the Middle East countries that follow the Sunni code of that faith. To use the more conservative Islamic view of apostacy, why do these been wish to reside in a so-called Christian country, when Christians in the Sunni Muslim country of Pakistan are persecuted?

With regard to your second point, only Iceland and Greenland lie to the north and of the Scandinavian area countries (I always add Denmark to these, on account of that country being another Viking base), one of those countries recently made pronouncements of view of these immigrants.

 

[najaB]

Britain was still a member of the EU long after June 23rd 2016, so I don't know what point you are trying to make.

You're saying that a decision made to prevent the spread of Covid variants is Brexit-related because of the date. That logic could be extended to anything.

 

[edwin_m]

It's sometimes difficult to separate the effects of Brexit from those of Covid when it comes to travel. But it may well be that the behaviour of the British government has reduced the trust of other nations that the UK will stick to its word. This could mean that Covid restrictions imposed on travel from Britain are more severe than they would have been if we'd still been an EU member. Or even a non-member that didn't show every indication of being willing to tear up agreements when it suited them.

 

[alex397]

Since the vast majority of these people are Muslim, why do they not seek Iran if they are Shia Muslims or the Middle East countries that follow the Sunni code of that faith. To use the more conservative Islamic view of apostacy, why do these been wish to reside in a so-called Christian country, when Christians in the Sunni Muslim country of Pakistan are persecuted?

With regard to your second point, only Iceland and Greenland lie to the north and of the Scandinavian area countries (I always add Denmark to these, on account of that country being another Viking base), one of those countries recently made pronouncements of view of these immigrants.

I can’t imagine many people wanting to head to Iran. Indeed, many have left the country. Some asylum seekers/immigrants who have reached the UK have been from Iran.
Also, you should be aware that many asylum seekers have indeed just travelled to other Middle Eastern countries which are deemed safer.
You are also assuming many of the Muslim asylum seekers will be devout Muslims. Some may be unreligious and culturally Muslim. There will also be practising Muslims who strongly disagree with the more conservative or more extreme aspects of religion in the country the have come from.

With your second point, I was just giving an imaginary scenario to try to explain some of the perceived actions (or inaction) from France.

 

[REVUpminster]

French and German protests re the Delta variant is a red herring. Britain is testing 10 times more people than Germany, 5 times more than France. We are also surge testing so our figures are significantly higher. We have created a stick for them to beat us with. The Delta variant is in Australia and I expect Britain will get the blame. The health minister in Australia said yesterday the Astra Zeneca vaccine is ineffective.

we're doooomed.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not EU but European Space Agency , which UK is part of.

ESA has not much to do with the EU .

Nice shot but try better next time .

You can submit a correction to the BBC's article entitled

Lift-off for European Union's new space programme​

here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/questions/getting-in-touch/report-news-fault

The article is here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57573698 - the name of the new agency is the EU Agency for the Space Programme.

One assumes they didn't do their research on Wikipedia like the rest of us.

 

[najaB]

Britain is testing 10 times more people than Germany, 5 times more than France.

Err... you do realise there's a difference between absolute and percentage values, right?

 

[REVUpminster]

Err... you do realise there's a difference between absolute and percentage values, right?

If you don't look for something you don't find it.

 

[najaB]

If you don't look for something you don't find it.

Percentages are percentages. If there's a 5% rate then test 100 people, you'll find 5 cases. Test 1000 people you'll find 50.

 

[edwin_m]

Percentages are percentages. If there's a 5% rate then test 100 people, you'll find 5 cases. Test 1000 people you'll find 50.

If they are random then yes. But most of the testing is probably of people with symptoms or their close contacts.

 

[najaB]

If they are random then yes. But most of the testing is probably of people with symptoms or their close contacts.

If you're only/mainly testing people who are likely to be positive that increases your net positivity rate as compared to purely random testing of the general population.

 

[Cowley]

We’d probably better not disappear down too much of a Covid rabbit hole here. I believe there’s a whole other section devoted to that kind of thing.
Thanks!

 

[JonasB]

Since the vast majority of these people are Muslim, why do they not seek Iran if they are Shia Muslims or the Middle East countries that follow the Sunni code of that faith. To use the more conservative Islamic view of apostacy, why do these been wish to reside in a so-called Christian country, when Christians in the Sunni Muslim country of Pakistan are persecuted?

Many are secular muslims who have no wish to live in a theocracy.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Many are secular muslims who have no wish to live in a theocracy.

This is what Kemal Attaturk had in mind when Turkey was reformed after the end of the Ottoman Empire, but even there, there has been a move to the more conservative elements gaining ground.

I wonder how "secular Muslims" as you describe are viewed by the majority of Imams in Britain?

 

[JonasB]

Indeed. Before Covid, I visited the UK at least two times per year and I always travelled by train. Now I feel the trouble and extra costs involved just are not worth it. There are plenty of other interesting places to visit in Europe where I am not called "a nasty EU" (as I was told in 2019 by a "nice" older gentleman). Unfortunately, I am not the only one who feels that way.

I'm in a similar situation. My plan was to visit the UK last year for a "last time" before Brexit, but that turned out to not be possible. Before that, I made regular trips to the UK. Mostly because I had a close relative in the country, but due to Brexit she decided to leave and now lives in Germany instead. Will I return? Maybe? But it honestly depends on what is involved and the general attitude. I hope I can be able to return some day, but time will tell. Maybe I'll head to Scotland, they seem to have a more postive attitude towards other Europeans. But if the UK decide to introduce some kind of border precheck I'll probably go somewhere else instead and make use of the fact that I can enjoy freedom of movement in 26 other European countries.