Emotions and national pride should have no place in trade negotiations.
What matters is the facts and what will actually benefit the country as a whole.
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Brexit matters
- Thread starter Xenophon PCDGS
- Start date
What matters is the facts and what will actually benefit the country as a whole.
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R
RailUK Forums
Hopefully this confirms our EHIC replacement:
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Full summary:
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SS4
Established Member
I've not been keeping an eye on the deal but don't forget that they've had months to do this. A deal is likely better than no deal but remember that we may have gotten better if we actually started negotiations in spring.
Parliament is due for a vote on 30th December which is farcical given the deadline on the 31st. Get them in on Saturday to vote on it - these people serve us not the other way round.
Also check the international press, ours will sell us out for a euro
Parliament is due for a vote on 30th December which is farcical given the deadline on the 31st. Get them in on Saturday to vote on it - these people serve us not the other way round.
Also check the international press, ours will sell us out for a euro
Shame on Starmer and Labour! We are where we are partly because of last year's evil alliance between Corbyn's Labour and Swinson's LibDems. Labour still doesn't know what its views about Europe really are — unlike the Scottish Nationalists, from whom we do at least get a clear line. It's hard to decide which of the two big English parties is the more disgusting.
birchesgreen
Established Member
You think we should vote against it thus throwing the UK into the chaos of no-deal?
Sometimes you just have to accept whatever is the least worst on the table. And move on, endlessly fighting the same wars years afterwards is never a good thing.
I agree with labour on this.
The deal is never going to match up to being in the EU for a remain supporter. However, it sounds like a decent enough bi-lateral compromise that should be mutually beneficial to both the UK and the EU, and should allow both sides to move forward.
The deal is never going to match up to being in the EU for a remain supporter. However, it sounds like a decent enough bi-lateral compromise that should be mutually beneficial to both the UK and the EU, and should allow both sides to move forward.
Absolutely the right choice for a man who wants to lead Labour into the next general election. He is right that a Labour government would inherit the agreement and that any changes to our relationship with the EU would need to add to and not replace the FTA. He did seem to indicate that he would like to negoiate a services and mobility agreement of some sort, if Labour wins next election. It will anger die hard remainers but most moderates on either side should view it as a reasonable position.
IMO, he should advise his MPs to vote for it, but not whip the vote.
Last year's evil alliance? Sorry, but what are you on about? Labour were forced into a corner by the Tories wanting a GE and then Swinson and Sturgeon politicking for their own gains in calling for a GE.
Labour have no other option and this feels like design - Tories agree a last minute trade deal to declare themselves the heroes against their portrayal of an unfair EU and hope Starmer abstains, so they then can portray him as being against the will of the people all over again. I don't agree with Starmer whipping - I'd offer a free vote in his position with the encouragement to vote for it, but in principal the Labour party have to support this deal. The key thing is that they must make the Tories own it.
A free vote won't happen because it would look like Labour taking a neutral position, especially if members of shadow cabinet voted against it. A one line whip would be a better choice, which means shadow ministers have to resign if they vote against and instructs back bench MPs to vote for it but makes it clear there will be no consequences if they don't.
Worth noting that their appears to be a 4 year break clause in the deal. *Should* Labour win the next GE in 2024, they could then hypothetically renegotiate the deal, potentially paving the way back to re-entry. On the flip side, whoever's in charge of the Tories by then could leave us with an
According to Simon Calder, you won't need a International Driving Permit to drive in the EU. They were meant to be needed for Spain.
A lot of Irish people buy from UK online retailers but will soon have to pay VAT. That's if the retailer continues to serve Ireland. They can get some things from the EU, for example from amazon.de, but a lot of Irish people prefer the British retailers.
A lot of Irish people buy from UK online retailers but will soon have to pay VAT. That's if the retailer continues to serve Ireland. They can get some things from the EU, for example from amazon.de, but a lot of Irish people prefer the British retailers.
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Its a review clause, not a break clause. Both sides can unilaterally cancel the agreement at any point. Starmer won't let Labour go into next general election promising to reintroduce freedom of movement and that rules out rejoining the single market. The EU won't give better access on goods to a third country. That leaves three linked areas for future negotiations between a future UK government and the EU: services - labour mobility, EHIC - Erasmus and Defence - Foreign policy. Agreements in those areas will likely sit on top of this agreement rather than over ride it.
I said this last Friday and it seems to have aged rather well.
Just for extra absurdity - students in Northern Ireland will reportedly continue to have access to the Erasmus scheme by virtue of the Irish government extending eligibility to them.
I am not too hopeful its replacement will get adequate funding. If it does then it would be a very good scheme but I suspect the government will pocket savings from Erasmus and under fund the program for British students to study around the world.
I think Afghanistan, as a developing country, is entitled to better terms under WTO than we would.
I don't think even Mr Johnson's slippery oratory would convince anyone we are 'developing'.
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_... provisions available to developing countries.
VauxhallandI
Established Member
Exactly, it’s very difficult to take ones opinion seriously when you see statements about fish like this. It’s almost trollesque.
Unless I of course missed the 2012 fish riots
GusB
Established Member
I realise that fish isn't really all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but it does matter to the communities involved in the industry. If you were to completely remove the fishing industry from the UK, you'd be inflicting a lot of pain on those towns whose economies rely on it in the same way that the loss of mining and other heavy industries devastated those communities which largely relied upon them.
Of course, the real damage to UK fishing was done decades ago by successive governments who didn't really care enough.
Of course, the real damage to UK fishing was done decades ago by successive governments who didn't really care enough.
Exactly! The EU fishing policy wasn't great for our industry but that's largely due to the UK government not fighting hard enough for our industry.
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2012
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If labour or Starmer does not vote for this, they finished,( ie they have no chance and people need to understand this) and will NEVER win back the heartlands or Red war which they have to.
This is where alot of people keep on forgetting, ie the labour working class areas who have been screwed over, left behide etc etc etc, are the ones that got brexit pasted. If we go back in to the EU tomorrow morning the resentment would sky rocket and we would just continual not resolve the issues.
Remain side has still done a very VERY poor job to these votes explaining the benefits of the EU. Personnel I doubt this will change in the coming years while the re-join camp again takes place
This is where alot of people keep on forgetting, ie the labour working class areas who have been screwed over, left behide etc etc etc, are the ones that got brexit pasted. If we go back in to the EU tomorrow morning the resentment would sky rocket and we would just continual not resolve the issues.
Remain side has still done a very VERY poor job to these votes explaining the benefits of the EU. Personnel I doubt this will change in the coming years while the re-join camp again takes place
The same people who are going to be quite disappointed to find that there isn't actually a unicorn in every pot outside the EU.
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 9,088
They wont care, They will believe it just better being away from the EU.
Spamcan81
Established Member
Whilst getting a free trade was important, not all in the garden is rosy. Customs checks will still be needed and UK business leaders are saying that's the biggest imposition of red tape in 50 years. So what happened to Leave's promise of a "bonfire of red tape" when we left the EU?
www.bbc.co.uk
What Boris Johnson's mistake tells us about our future
There is no precedent for the avalanche of new trade barriers that is coming after 1 January.
www.bbc.co.uk
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This, on a t-shirt.
Quite the opposite I think. Short of a Lazarus style revival of the Libdems Labour have all the pro remain cities like London, Cambridge and Exeter in the bag whatever they do.
It is small town Midlands and North where they have to win back seats if they are ever to get power again and voting against the deal there would go down like a lead balloon.
Snow1964
Established Member
Did anyone see Boris announcement on the news where he said no more non-tariff trade requirements with EU
Non-tariff trade requirements are paperwork, customs certs etc, but he clearly doesn’t understand, as there is going to be millions of these that weren’t required before Brexit
Interesting that recent surveys are now 57% should never have done Brexit, and now only 40% support it. There is an election elephant trap coming up if everything lost or harder is highlighted during next campaign
Non-tariff trade requirements are paperwork, customs certs etc, but he clearly doesn’t understand, as there is going to be millions of these that weren’t required before Brexit
Interesting that recent surveys are now 57% should never have done Brexit, and now only 40% support it. There is an election elephant trap coming up if everything lost or harder is highlighted during next campaign
It’s a shame there isn’t an election in 2021. That could be very interesting indeed. 2024 feels a very long time away - I hope there are big changes to our government before then though.
cactustwirly
Established Member
If the financial industry goes down the pan, fishing will be the least of these people's concern's.
Fisherman sell all their fish to the French and Spanish, so they'd be screwed in the event of a no deal, there's no point having access to all the waters of you can't flog the fish!