Breaking journey overnight on an Open Return?

[Thebaz]

Hi all,

I'm going up to Sheffield this weekend on Friday evening and returning to STP on Sunday. I'm intending to stay overnight with my brother in Dronfield on Friday. Am I allowed to do this on one ticket? Or do I have to buy the return to Sheffield and additionally a single from Chesterfield/Sheffield to Dronfield?

 

[Watershed]

Hi all,

I'm going up to Sheffield this weekend on Friday evening and returning to STP on Sunday. I'm intending to stay overnight with my brother in Dronfield on Friday. Am I allowed to do this on one ticket? Or do I have to buy the return to Sheffield and additionally a single from Chesterfield/Sheffield to Dronfield?

Break of journey is permitted on the vast majority of walk-up tickets, including the various Any Permitted and via Chesterfield fares from London Terminals to Sheffield. This includes overnight break of journey.

However what you need to bear in mind is the date-wise validity of the ticket. If you buy an Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak Return, the outward portion is only valid for one day. It's only the return portion that is valid for a month. Therefore whilst you could quite legitimately travel up to Sheffield on the Friday, travel down to Dronfield on the Friday night and then continue down to London on the Sunday - you couldn't travel up to Chesterfield on Friday and then continue up to Dronfield on Saturday.

The other factor to bear in mind is the time restrictions that apply on a Super Off-Peak Return - you couldn't take any train from St Pancras between the 15:32 (or 15:35 changing at Nottingham) and 19:02. An Off-Peak Return would be valid at any time from the 09:02 on Fridays (this seems to be a recent change), but would cost considerably more.

You might also be interested to know that there are cheaper tickets valid only on London Northwestern and CrossCountry, i.e. for use from Euston via Tamworth. Some of the connections at Tamworth are very good, meaning the journey time is not much longer than the direct EMR service from St Pancras. The time restrictions are similar, but the fares are considerably cheaper - Off-Peak is £64.90 vs £139.00, Super Off-Peak is £53.90 vs £87.00. The only complicating factor would be that, because you'd be limited to XC between Sheffield and Tamworth, you couldn't stop off at Dronfield (they don't call there). But even if you bought a separate ticket for that bit of your journey, it would still present a considerable saving.

 

[miklcct]

You can, as long as you complete the journey within the validity period.

 

[Thebaz]

Many thanks thanks for the info, good point about the outward ticket. Also I hadn't considered going via Tamworth, that route had absolutely never crossed my mind! But it would enable me to bash a few miles of track that I haven't done before (Tamworth to Derby) .

So my options would appear to be:
1) Travelling on EMT break my 'super off peak' journey at Dronfield on the Friday night (after changing at Chesterfield or Sheffield), continue to Sheffield via a single ticket on Saturday and return to London on the return portion of my SOP on the Sunday.
OR
2) Travelling on LNW and CC change at Chesterfield or Sheffield and buy a single to Dronfield on Friday, then buy another single on Saturday from Dronfield to Sheffield, then return as before but via Tamworth. The difference being that option 2 requires me to buy two single tickets but may still work out cheaper.

 

[30907]

Break of journey is permitted on the vast majority of walk-up tickets, including the various Any Permitted and via Chesterfield fares from London Terminals to Sheffield. This includes overnight break of journey.

However what you need to bear in mind is the date-wise validity of the ticket. If you buy an Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak Return, the outward portion is only valid for one day. It's only the return portion that is valid for a month. Therefore whilst you could quite legitimately travel up to Sheffield on the Friday, travel down to Dronfield on the Friday night and then continue down to London on the Sunday - you couldn't travel up to Chesterfield Dronfield on Friday and then continue up to Dronfield Sheffield on Saturday.

An Anytime Return is certainly valid to do what the OP wants.
Certainly until recently an overnight break was permitted on (Super) Off-Peak Return fares if the journey could not be completed within the day, but that information seems to have disappeared from view.

I would be inclined go with the OP's option of a single from Dronfield to Sheffield to avoid potential hassle.

(I would only attempt to go to/from Dronfield via Sheffield with an itinerary from a journey planner, as it appears to be doubling back.)

 

[Watershed]

Many thanks thanks for the info, good point about the outward ticket. Also I hadn't considered going via Tamworth, that route had absolutely never crossed my mind! But it would enable me to bash a few miles of track that I haven't done before (Tamworth to Derby) .

No problem! It's a bit of an underused ticket IMO - I've certainly never seen it advertised anywhere.

1) Travelling on EMT break my 'super off peak' journey at Dronfield on the Friday night (after changing at Chesterfield or Sheffield), continue to Sheffield via a single ticket on Saturday and return to London on the return portion of my SOP on the Sunday.

Yes. I presume you'll be wanting to visit Sheffield on the Saturday too then?

2) Travelling on LNW and CC change at Chesterfield or Sheffield and buy a single to Dronfield on Friday, then buy another single on Saturday from Dronfield to Sheffield, then return as before but via Tamworth. The difference being that option 2 requires me to buy two single tickets but may still work out cheaper.

Yes, exactly. Depending on whether you want to go to Sheffield on the Saturday, it may be cheaper to just buy an LNR only ticket to Tamworth and then an Off-Peak Return from there to Dronfield.

 

[Thebaz]

Great, I will do some investigation tonight

 

[saxsux]

Certainly until recently an overnight break was permitted on (Super) Off-Peak Return fares if the journey could not be completed within the day, but that information seems to have disappeared from view.

The terms and conditions for (Super) Off-Peak fares do still allow this:

4.4 Off-Peak Singles and the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning. If the journey cannot be completed in this time, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day. Unless otherwise indicated in the relevant restriction code, time restrictions apply as from the initial origin station on both days. The appropriate restrictions for the actual day on which travel is being undertaken apply (for example, it may be that if day 1 is on Sunday, no restrictions apply, but on day 2, the Monday-Friday restrictions apply). All travel must be completed by 04:29 in the morning after this second day. Please note that break of journey is not permitted on some journeys, as detailed in the ticket restrictions.

 

[Watershed]

The terms and conditions for (Super) Off-Peak fares do still allow this:

They do, but the sticking point is the nebulous meanng of "journey cannot be completed in this time". Does setting off too late to complete it qualify? And if so, do you have to take the first possible train the next day?

 

[Hadders]

The subject of overnight break of journey crops up quite frequently on this section of the forum.

The outward portion of the ticket is actually valid until 04:29 on day 3. This was clarified by a very helpful member of this forum who, at the time the post linked to below was written was authoritative on the subject. There is no requirement to travel as far as you can etc.

Revised NRCoC

Have you ever actually tried either of these options? From my experience ticket office staff don't know the answers to any but the most obvious questions. The last time I mentioned the routing guide at one it was clear that the staff member I was talking to had never heard of it. In my area it...

www.railforums.co.uk

Despite this, I would not expect a hassle free journey if you try to use a ticket on day 2.