Breakfast on Trains

[Essexman]

With the demise of the restaurant car I believe there are no longer any service trains where any (not just first class) passenger can enjoy a proper cooked breakfast, served on a plate on a British train. Once a very British institution.

Virgin & East Coast serve complimentary breakfast in first class only.
EMT serve breakfast on a few south bound trains, but in first class only.
FGW Travelling Chefs cook a good breakfast, served on a plate in first class but in a cardboard box for standard, and there are no longer any morning dining cars.
Sleepers don't serve a full breakfast.
WSMR is no more and the once superb Norwich dining cars have all gone.

The only exception I can think of is the WAG express where I believe standard class passengers can order breakfast from the buffet. Does anyone know if this is served at seat on a plate (as WSMR used to) or in a box as FGW?

 

[All Line Rover]

Last time on the WAG I noticed Standard Class passengers eating it on a plate, although I don't know if this is official policy or not.

I personally feel that breakfast should only be served to First Class passengers in order to differentiate First Class as a premium product and justify the price. The purpose of Standard Class travel is to allow one to get from A to B at a reasonable price - not to travel in the heights of luxury.

 

[Jatos]

I kind of agree with you on the first class, but by the same token, I think the difference between first class and standard should be such that people on not much above a normal wage can at least once in a while use it affordably. I don't like the notion that anything on a train is off limits to all but the fairly well off.

I also think you have something like buffets cards or trolleys on long distance services so standard class passengers can get a breakfast, if in a less fancy fashion.

 

[the sniper]

I kind of agree with you on the first class, but by the same token, I think the difference between first class and standard should be such that people on not much above a normal wage can at least once in a while use it affordably. I don't like the notion that anything on a train is off limits to all but the fairly well off.

You can get some very reasonably priced First Advance fares which certainly aren't out of the reach of people on a 'normal wage'.

 

[soil]

Indeed, the issue is really that First is not particularly a scarce commodity, so neither the price, nor the perceived value, can be set that high.

 

[All Line Rover]

You can get some very reasonably priced First Advance fares which certainly aren't out of the reach of people on a 'normal wage'.

Like £49 London to Glasgow, or £23.50 Birmingham to London, or £25 Sheffield to London. Certainly affordable for any occasional traveller with a modest income.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed, the issue is really that First is not particularly a scarce commodity, so neither the price, nor the perceived value, can be set that high.

With the exception of XC, who's price premiums for First Class season tickets are extortionately expensive (e.g. Derby to Birmingham, Standard Class £2820/y, First Class £6084/y!).

 

[RPI]

The rumour is circulating (and from a good source for once), that FGW may be re-introducing a morning up Pullman, 05:53 from Ply has been bounded around, with the return working for the crew being the 12:06 Padd-Pnz but we shall see, it was originally mooted for the last timetable change in May but now december is being mentioned, i suppose we will see.

 

[Simon11]

I'm never understand why so many people here wish to bring back carriages where people can eat their breakfast in the morning.

There are reasons why these have been removed or reduced offering:-
The costs of the service is higher than the income
More space required by the dining space results in less seats for passengers
Trains should be run to get passengers from A-B, not to offer resturance style meals to customers on board leading to less seats for passengers and increase the subsidy required from the goverment.

Finally, with the Derby-Birmingham; personally a differential of twice the Standard Clas is fair considering the service on offer, the extra qualities of First Class, free Wifi, a Host and considering that there is only limited space in First Class.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The only exception I can think of is the WAG express where I believe standard class passengers can order breakfast from the buffet. Does anyone know if this is served at seat on a plate (as WSMR used to) or in a box as FGW?

You have to get a take-away from the buffet in standard.
Last time I tried it I got a bacon roll.
Nothing else on offer.

First class meal is great, though.

 

[Essexman]

I understand the argument for differentiating First & Standard classes, but it's a shame that there's now no breakfast on many routes in either class.

London to Norwich is an example where with no First Class catering few pay the extra, even if it's only a few pounds on advance tickets.

 

[Butts]

You can get some very reasonably priced First Advance fares which certainly aren't out of the reach of people on a 'normal wage'.

Indeed, I can get a First Class Ticket from Falkirk to Almouth for £10.10 and enjoy an East Coast Breakfast free of charge , in addition to free wifi and a complimentary newspaper.

 

[ffm]

ah EastCoast free wifi.........great on a quiet train, but the bandwidth can't cope with a reasonably full train. Nearly 2 hours to book a ticket on their own website.........I gave up.

Thank the lord for a dongle.

Nice 3 glasses of red wine though!

 

[Butts]

ah EastCoast free wifi.........great on a quiet train, but the bandwidth can't cope with a reasonably full train. Nearly 2 hours to book a ticket on their own website.........I gave up.

Thank the lord for a dongle.

Nice 3 glasses of red wine though!

I don't (as a rule) do busy trains....the fares are to high and you don't get a "4" to yourself

 

[Essexman]

Whether catering differentiates between First & Standard varies considerably, but yes it can affect whether I'll pay the extra.

For example:

If travelling on East Midlands after a work meeting, I'll pay the extra for First in order to get a meal.

When there was at seat dining from a menu I used to do the same on East Coast. Now I only will for breakfast.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

You have to get a take-away from the buffet in standard.
Last time I tried it I got a bacon roll.
Nothing else on offer.

First class meal is great, though.

Yes, full breakfasts can be ordered on WG Premier Service and brought to your seat in standard - had a breakfast a couple of weeks ago.

 

[DarloRich]

Last time on the WAG I noticed Standard Class passengers eating it on a plate, although I don't know if this is official policy or not.

I personally feel that breakfast should only be served to First Class passengers in order to differentiate First Class as a premium product and justify the price. The purpose of Standard Class travel is to allow one to get from A to B at a reasonable price - not to travel in the heights of luxury.

Get lost! It should be available to anyone who wants to pay for it! If the facilities exist to prepare it why not make some money by serving anyone?

 

[sprinterguy]

Get lost! It should be available to anyone who wants to pay for it! If the facilities exist to prepare it why not make some money by serving anyone?

Precisely! And if you were to make it complimentary in first, but charge a price for it in standard class then you would still retain the class differential while making breakfast available to all.

 

[ex-railwayman]

Catering on trains has always been a sticky subject, much like their cakes and pastries......

I have always believed that anyone should be able to eat and drink on any passenger train in Britain regardless of class of travel, on the trains years ago, we had a buffet/restaurant car service, which was an extra coach within the consist of the train, so, didn't take away any revenue earning seats from the train company per se. However, these days, what with cross country services being run with a 2 car Class 156, for example, from Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich, a route of nearly 250 miles, not only is there NO 1st Class accomodation whatsoever, but, the refreshment trolley only runs part way of the journey. I personally see train companies nowadays regarding the offer of any catering as a bit of a bind, rather than a necessary customer service, catering these days is provided by Rail Gourmet, who's parent company is SSP Group Limited which is owned by the private equity fund EQT, a Swedish company, so, again a foreign influence on our shores, it is up to the ATOC's on how they are used on which services.

I would also contest certain members on here as to who uses 1st Class accomodation the most, I was lead to believe approx. 65% of current 1st Class users from Monday to Friday, across Britain, were businessmen and women, who had their fares bought for them by their employers, rather than having to pay out of their pocket money with no reimbursement from anyone. I have had the privilege in the past of having my boss pay for my train fares before and thoroughly enjoyed the breakfast that came with it as I knew it could all be reclaimed on expenses and I personally didn't lose out financially. I agree with the OP though, we don't get what we used to regularly any more.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[billio]

Precisely! And if you were to make it complimentary in first, but charge a price for it in standard class then you would still retain the class differential while making breakfast available to all.

With respect to East Coast, I don't think the 1st Class breakfast would be worth the money whatever they charged you for it. If I had personally paid for a 1st Class ticket I would be very disappointed with the complementary breakfast: they always give me stomach ache.

 

[Yew]

Get lost! It should be available to anyone who wants to pay for it! If the facilities exist to prepare it why not make some money by serving anyone?

I fear that if Breakfasts where introduced for standard class, the price would be very expensive for what was served, seeing as they have a captive market :/

 

[DarloRich]

I fear that if Breakfasts where introduced for standard class, the price would be very expensive for what was served, seeing as they have a captive market :/

compare with how much you pay for breakfast in a hotel if you not on a B&B rate.

I think the price would be similar. Anyway if the quality is good the price can be higher. Plus some people have expense accounts .............................

 

[ainsworth74]

With respect to East Coast, I don't think the 1st Class breakfast would be worth the money whatever they charged you for it. If I had personally paid for a 1st Class ticket I would be very disappointed with the complementary breakfast: they always give me stomach ache.

Not the complementary breakfast but the old paid for alternative was certainly worth paying for.

I fear that if Breakfasts where introduced for standard class, the price would be very expensive for what was served, seeing as they have a captive market

On East Coast when they still had at-seat dining the cost of the breakfast was £12 in first and £6.90 in standard. The breakfast in both classes included bacon, sausage, fried/scrambled egg, baked beans, roast tomato and english muffin. First class got additionally fried mushrooms, black pudding, toast and a glass of orange juice.

Now maybe it's just me but I think that both of those are reasonably priced breakfasts for what you get (though I think the first class price is a little steep, £10 would have been better). I'm sure you could go to a greasy spoon and got twice as much for the same price but for a train? I think that's very reasonable.

Personally I always felt that East Coast had it pretty much spot on with at-seat dining. You didn't lose any seating to a dedicated restaurant and both classes got access to cooked food (though only the breakfasts were chef prepared for standard class). Restaurants were lovely but outside of a few services (FGWs evening Pullmans and a couple of EC Kings Cross departures) they tended not to be particularly busy.

 

[Holly]

... Personally I always felt that East Coast had it pretty much spot on with at-seat dining. You didn't lose any seating to a dedicated restaurant and both classes got access to cooked food (though only the breakfasts were chef prepared for standard class). Restaurants were lovely but outside of a few services (FGWs evening Pullmans and a couple of EC Kings Cross departures) they tended not to be particularly busy.

Yes.

The biggest problem is the post privitisation desire to ram as many people as possible into the coaches of long distance trains thus leaving not enough elbow room for civilised eating however you arrange it.

Spacious table seating throughout and walk-up food service counters equipped with refrigeration and microwaves is the way to go. If placed at multiple locations along the (long distance) trains then service can be matched to demand, to some extent by selective closing. Waiter service, tablecloths, china and metal tableware, but the same menu, in First Class.

That way non-diners get to benefit from the spacious tables.

As it is, trains are too cramped for comfortable dining. Most people just want to get the misery of their train travel over and done with as quickly as possible.

 

[jopsuk]

Yes.

The biggest problem is the post privitisation desire to ram as many people as possible into the coaches of long distance trains thus leaving not enough elbow room for civilised eating however you arrange it.

Cheaper than doubling the amount of stock/services...

 

[DarloRich]

Yes.

The biggest problem is the post privitisation desire to ram as many people as possible into the coaches of long distance trains thus leaving not enough elbow room for civilised eating however you arrange it.

Spacious table seating throughout and walk-up food service counters equipped with refrigeration and microwaves is the way to go. If placed at multiple locations along the (long distance) trains then service can be matched to demand, to some extent by selective closing. Waiter service, tablecloths, china and metal tableware, but the same menu, in First Class.

That way non-diners get to benefit from the spacious tables.

As it is, trains are too cramped for comfortable dining. Most people just want to get the misery of their train travel over and done with as quickly as possible.

Jesus Christ Ray! This isn’t bloody Poirot!

Lets set out every train like the Royal Scotsman and arrange for 1920's style catering to be offered. Would madam like an aperitif before luncheon? The fish today is grilled sea bream in a herb butter served with crushed new potatoes and a panache of seasonal vegetables. How would madam like her beef wellington prepared, well done? Aves plaisir! May I suggest that the sommelier recommend a wine to accompany your meal this evening? We have a very nice claret on board. Yes it is a 1957. Yes, the 1957 is quite exquisite. For desert our patisser has produced a wonderful croquembouche for your delectation. Perhaps a glass of sauternes to aid digestion. Yes Sir, of course we have a wide selection of both brandy and cognac. May I bring you a glass in the smoking room?

In the real world things are going to be slightly different. You would have a very hard time persuading a TOC to remove seats and thus paying customers in the hope you may persuade someone to buy a vast meal on board!

It would be a nice world to travel in mind!

 

[Morden Via CHX]

I personally feel that breakfast should only be served to First Class passengers in order to differentiate First Class as a premium product and justify the price. The purpose of Standard Class travel is to allow one to get from A to B at a reasonable price - not to travel in the heights of luxury.

Yes, because things are so good on the railways that we can pick and choose who we sell to.. if Bob in the quiet zone wants a breakfast then sell him one ffs

 

[Cliveblackpool]

From someone who used to enjoy BR's breakfast & evening meals in the restaurant car, it is sad to see that it is now only an option for First Class.
Like in any nice restaurant you can't expect it to come cheap!!!
If fact looking at 1st/2nd pricing difference & 48 v 72 capacity, imo First class passengers should pay for meals & alcoholic drinks. Just complimentary hot drinks & biscuits etc!

 

[tec]

What's wrong with eating breakfast before you leave home or your hotel?

It's very rare that I want to eat breakfast on the move.

If you want breakfast, then get it before, or after your journey.

A little pre-planning your day makes life so much sweeter.

 

[ainsworth74]

What's wrong with eating breakfast before you leave home or your hotel?

That's fine if you live an hour or so from London (or other destination but we'll stick with London for now) but if you live two or even three hours from London that isn't always a good option. For example if you need to be at a 1000 meeting you'll need to be at the station by 0930 (at the latest), if it's three hours from London that means leaving your home station at 0630, then there's time it takes to get to the station (maybe half an hour) the time to get ready (another half hour) and then you need to prepare and eat breakfast. You can quickly be looking at getting up at not much after 0500 and it doesn't get that much better for only being two hours away!

Going the other way if you don't finish till 1700 and you're train isn't until 1800 then you won't be at your home station before 2100 and getting home and cooking means you might not be eating until 2200. You could eat before you travel but that means either delaying your departure or eating something like a Burger King. Given the choice I'd rather have something of slightly better quality on board.

When you're close to London or wherever you're travelling to eating at home is clearly an option but when long journey's are involved being able to eat a full meal on board isn't really a luxury or down to the passengers poor planning it's something of a necessity.

 

[Butts]

compare with how much you pay for breakfast in a hotel if you not on a B&B rate.

I think the price would be similar. Anyway if the quality is good the price can be higher. Plus some people have expense accounts .............................

Better still compare it with the cost of an Olympic at Little Chef and make it the same size East Coast (£7.95)