Breakdown (or more?) on ECML

[elementalpat]

More delays on the ECML this Sunday, if the 'broken down train' is due to the same reason of coasting, all I can say is hmmmm!!!

 

[YorkshireRider]

I know via facebook that it is a FCC service that failed at Hitchin, however i dont know the reason, my fellow worker has been stuck on the 1240 KX-LEEDS for nearly 4 hours at Stevenage

 

[Failed Unit]

With the work going on this weekend are the trying to keep the HSTs on the London services?

 

[ushawk]

FCC Journey check said the 12.15 Kings Cross to Peterborough suffered a power failure at Hitchin and it had to be detrained - whether thats related to the coasting problems of last time ive no idea.

Limited East Coast service between Kings Cross and Peterborough with a limited bus service too, no FCC service between Stevenage and Peterborough but shuttles are running north of Biggleswade - lots of ticket acceptance in place.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/sa5762aa37ce4df2b618a765b13e7cf3/details.html

 

[Max]

The 1300 Kings Cross to Aberdeen hasn't even reached Newcastle yet - currently 4 hours late (ouch!).

 

[Whistler40145]

Another fine mess on the ECML!


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[YorkshireBear]

The 1300 Kings Cross to Aberdeen hasn't even reached Newcastle yet - currently 4 hours late (ouch!).

Well someone has just been hit at Dunbar... so unless it got through that it is going to be very very late indeed! Looking at live departures its just got stuck in that too.... not a fun day at all.

 

[LE Greys]

Sounds as if the timetable is a bit of a house of cards. One slip, and the whole lot collapses. I'm not entirely sure where the problem is, but if it's north of Cambridge Junction, they really ought to look at running two trains per hour via Cambridge in the paths of the usual fast shuttles. Obviously, those would have to be HSTs. If there is enough space, send all GC and HT that way as well, then turn everything else back at Peterborough. FCC could handle all the local traffic they could, with options to turn back at Stevenage, Huntingdon, Letchworth or wherever. Fill in with buses. It's better than trying to do the impossible.

Meanwhile, there must be some way to reinforce the headspans.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Since eureka, there does seem to be a hell of a lot less wiggle room...

 

[ainsworth74]

Sounds as if the timetable is a bit of a house of cards. One slip, and the whole lot collapses.

Since Eurkea the whole timetable is tuned such that there really is very little slack anywhere in it other than the ends of journeys. So if something goes wrong and a train misses a platform or a movement across a junction things can rapidly spiral out of control for that train and it will probably struggle to make up much time.

I'd say the ECML is pretty much full at this point and it's starting to show.

 

[Whistler40145]

I thought the WCML was bad enough prior to the route modernisation project.

It sounds like the ECML is in much need of a similar project, including power supply upgrades and where ever possible, remodelling of junctions.


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[91101]

This discussion is slightly out of kilter with what is occuring, the delays and issues today are due to a HEAVILY restricted layout at Hitchin, involving double shunts, coasting through a dead section of OHLE and single line working.

 

[Crossover]

If there is enough space, send all GC and HT that way as well, then turn everything else back at Peterborough.

In principal, a good idea but the reality is finding enough staff who sign it.

On the fly when I was stuck in problems on the ECML a month or two back (incidentally, nothing to do with the wires for a change!), I was on a GC which they hoped to divert via Lincoln, but we got cancelled at Grantham eventually as no crew could be sourced who signed it

 

[YorkshireRider]

While all the above may well be true it had little bearing on todays events, from what ive been told a FCC failed on the only line in use at Hitchin that both south and north bound trains were using, no Hull Trains or GC services were operating south of Peterbrough anyway today. Just 3 EC services in each direction per hour and 1/2? FCC services per hour. Just bad luck.

 

[jon0844]

Since eureka, there does seem to be a hell of a lot less wiggle room...

Well, I am sure everything will be be fine once we have those Thameslink trains coming through.

While all the above may well be true it had little bearing on todays events, from what ive been told a FCC failed on the only line in use at Hitchin that both south and north bound trains were using, no Hull Trains or GC services were operating south of Peterbrough anyway today. Just 3 EC services in each direction per hour and 1/2? FCC services per hour. Just bad luck.

Was it the same problem as last week with a 365 not playing ball?

 

[tsr]

Was it the same problem as last week with a 365 not playing ball?

One official Twitter account (I can't remember which - sorry!) said there was an engine failure, and then there was a problem coupling up the rescue loco. I don't know what "engine failure" really means, though.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't know if they're expecting problems to last or trains are out of place but there's 2 services this morning cancelled already - here's hoping I don't miss my usual train as the one after is one of them...

 

[fgwrich]

Couple of phots on Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59466642@N06/7102881167/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/6956877756/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/6957049898/in/photostream/

Coasted too early perhaps?

 

[HSTEd]

Meanwhile, there must be some way to reinforce the headspans.

There is nothing really wrong with the headspans, they don't seem to demonstrate any problems in other places they are used in the UK, it is simply that the line is very heavily loaded especially as it is largely a two track route compared to the other main lines.

I thought the WCML was bad enough prior to the route modernisation project.

It sounds like the ECML is in much need of a similar project, including power supply upgrades and where ever possible, remodelling of junctions.

As it is, the debacle that was the WCRM has forever poisoned the reputation of upgrades in this country, as now they will all be assumed to cost tens of billions of pounds and so on.

The ECML will have to struggle on until HS2 arrives and renders it a backwater along the lines of the West of England Main line.

 

[philjo]

Sounds as if the timetable is a bit of a house of cards. One slip, and the whole lot collapses. I'm not entirely sure where the problem is, but if it's north of Cambridge Junction, they really ought to look at running two trains per hour via Cambridge in the paths of the usual fast shuttles. Obviously, those would have to be HSTs. If there is enough space, send all GC and HT that way as well, then turn everything else back at Peterborough. FCC could handle all the local traffic they could, with options to turn back at Stevenage, Huntingdon, Letchworth or wherever. Fill in with buses. It's better than trying to do the impossible.

Meanwhile, there must be some way to reinforce the headspans.

Would not have been possible to go via Cambridge this time as the engineering works were on the points at Hitchin. Trains to/from Kings Lynn terminated/started at Letchworth & Letchworth-Stevenage section replaced by buses.

Perhaps EC could make a few additional Biggleswade stops or FCC use a HT diesel unit to get through the Hitchin area where the OHLE is isolated during the works.

 

[Pumbaa]

Was it the same problem as last week with a 365 not playing ball?

Of course it was. Nice to see FCC went some way to try and mitigate the problem by doing, err, nothing.


Apparently the problem stems from an AWS application. The 365s were built with two separate control loops for the AWS, one for AC and one for DC. When DC capability was removed, the two AWS loops were merged into one. Now when they drop the pan to coast, AWS automatically activates. The driver can override it, but somewhere the DC loop is still active behind all the gubbins, and this gives a brake application in the middle of the section.

FCC tried to get drivers to disable AWS just before entering the section, but it didn't seem to work. Thanks to someone on wnxx for the technical stuff.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Of course it was. Nice to see FCC went some way to try and mitigate the problem by doing, err, nothing.


Apparently the problem stems from an AWS application. The 365s were built with two separate control loops for the AWS, one for AC and one for DC. When DC capability was removed, the two AWS loops were merged into one. Now when they drop the pan to coast, AWS automatically activates. The driver can override it, but somewhere the DC loop is still active behind all the gubbins, and this gives a brake application in the middle of the section.

FCC tried to get drivers to disable AWS just before entering the section, but it didn't seem to work. Thanks to someone on wnxx for the technical stuff.

OH DEAR! Thats an awful lot of delay mins/cancellations that will be attributed to them then, i get the feeling FCC may try a bit harder to do something about it before next weekend.

 

[tsr]

[...I] get the feeling FCC may try a bit harder to do something about it before next weekend.

It depends on a few things, I should think:
1. Can they be bothered? (Who knows? If they make the same very serious mistake twice, I doubt they are that motivated to correct it before any potential third incident.)
2. If the current procedures for coasting were to work, are they significantly better than laying on buses or using diversions/alternative methods of running trains?
3. Could extra stops on extra EC/HT diesel services be arranged?

 

[Furrball]

Yesterday's disruption on the East Coast Main Line was a complex incident with several contributing factors.

At approximately 1315hrs the (electric) 1215hrs @FirstCC London King's Cross to Peterborough service failed north of Hitchin in a section of single-line working, with the other lines closed for scheduled engineering works. Overhead lines were turned off in this section - owing to the engineering work on the adjacent lines - and as a result the service was "coasting" through. For reasons which are currently under investigation, an automatic warning system was activated on the train which brought it to a stop. As it was unable to continue further, a diesel loco was then scrambled to move it.

There were then further problems with coupling the rescue loco and then with releasing the brakes on the failed train. As a result the 81 passengers on this were evacuated and walked down the tracks where onward road transport was provided.

Both @firstcc and @eastcoastuk rescheduled their timetables in consultation with us to prevent stranded trains having to stand between stations for an extended time.

Our engineering work was then revised to open up an additional line to get services through while the stranded train was removed. It was removed and clear by 1717hrs and the single line working arrangements restored to original configuration.

We apologise to all those delayed or inconvenienced by this disruption.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/h427km

 

[jon0844]

If the 365s have this potential problem, couldn't they organise it so that only 317 or 321s are sent through the unpowered section? (assuming they wouldn't have any similar problem).

 

[Dunderhead]

I can't understand why this was allowed to happen again after what happened two weeks ago, unless some kind of "fix" had been applied to the 365s which they wrongly believed to have resolved the problem?

Presumably not all of the 365s are affected by this problem as the service that failed was by no means the first to coast through that section yesterday?

Also is it just my imagination, or are more trains than usual running slowly through the previously dead section today? I seem to recall making a similar observation after last time as well

 

[A-driver]

As far as I have been told by a fairly official source FCC had an emergancy meeting and looked at things like fixing emergancy headlights to 317s to allow them to run the service, although you can't override the passcom on these so could have problems.

A few weeks back when this first happened neither Hornsey or network rail were happy with the idea of 365s coasting, it was FCC management insisting.

Perhaps they will have another emergancy meeting before next time...

 

[Dunderhead]

It appears that "next time" will be in another fortnight (Sun 6th May) and that this will be the last time they do this for the foreseeable future. I will be very interested to see whether or not the same course of events will take place for a third time running!

 

[jon0844]

I forgot about the passcom issue on the 321/317s, although it's surely considerably less likely that someone would pull the cord, than the current problem with the 365s. How long does the train need to coast?

 

[LE Greys]

I can't understand why this was allowed to happen again after what happened two weeks ago, unless some kind of "fix" had been applied to the 365s which they wrongly believed to have resolved the problem?

Presumably not all of the 365s are affected by this problem as the service that failed was by no means the first to coast through that section yesterday?

Also is it just my imagination, or are more trains than usual running slowly through the previously dead section today? I seem to recall making a similar observation after last time as well

Was it one of the South Easterners that failed? I can't remember if the ex-WAGN units ever had a working d.c. system.
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There is nothing really wrong with the headspans, they don't seem to demonstrate any problems in other places they are used in the UK, it is simply that the line is very heavily loaded especially as it is largely a two track route compared to the other main lines.

Except for a few places such as Huntingdon, where they are probably too long or spaced too far apart.

As it is, the debacle that was the WCRM has forever poisoned the reputation of upgrades in this country, as now they will all be assumed to cost tens of billions of pounds and so on.

The ECML will have to struggle on until HS2 arrives and renders it a backwater along the lines of the West of England Main line.

Thanks for the reminder!