BRASS vs Railway Engineman's

[T-Unit]

Hi all,

I'm looking at paying into some savings and can't really tell which would be best: BRASS or the Railway Engineman's savers thing. Would anybody be able to explain the differences between them?

TIA

 

[Geeves]

Brass is a voluntary (tax free) payment that tops up your pension. You can use it towards your lump sum or increased pension per year. The railway pension will invest your (extra) money to try and make it go further. I think engine mans is purely a savings scheme but not too sure.

 

[John Bishop]

Hi all,

I'm looking at paying into some savings and can't really tell which would be best: BRASS or the Railway Engineman's savers thing. Would anybody be able to explain the differences between them?

TIA

BRASS every time!

 

[greatkingrat]

Yes, definitely BRASS, the Railway Engineman's Scheme is appalling value for money with very high charges.

 

[Train_manager]

100% brass. Tax savings are great.

 

[dk1]

BRASS without a doubt as much as you can but do Enginemens as well if possible. It’s nice to get a few grand every 10 years to treat yourself or invest. I used to do it annually with every pay rise and that way you don’t notice it.

 

[chuff chuff]

Didn't know the enginemans was still on the go,a lot of guys used to as above take one out every year.

 

[rhys37429]

Definitely suggest Brass, put what you can afford into it.

I looked at enginemans, but unfortunately wasn't for me, the returns wasn't enough.
I could save more and get better returns with a regular saver at the bank every year.

 

[Starmill]

Take care as Brass isn't "savings" in the conventional sense of a savings account, it's an additional contribution to your pension, so pension rules apply. The main point being you can't draw it until you reach your scheme's pension age (55 or later in all but exceptional circumstances, and may move older in the future). Obviously the quid pro quo for that is the pension tax reliefs.

 

[dk1]

I looked at enginemans, but unfortunately wasn't for me, the returns wasn't enough.
I could save more and get better returns with a regular saver at the bank every year.

I think the thing with Enginemans is that it was like the BR Savings Bank. It could be deducted through paybills so was simple and every so often you got a very pleasant surprise. Some of the earlier ones started in the late 90s had exceptionally good bonuses.

I’ve got another two £5 policy’s maturing next month that I started in 2013 which will pay out around £5k

 

[Mojo]

This thread on the MSE forum is coming up for 12 years old now, but goes some way to explain why the Engineman’s investment is frankly awful and should be avoided:

Railway Engineman Assurance - saving plan - Advice please

http://www.enginemens.co.uk/sites/default/files/uploads/RAIL-APP-FORM-SAVER.pdf

forums.moneysavingexpert.com

In summary, if you’ve maxed out Brass, or it doesn’t suit your needs, get an investment through another lender.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I’ve got an engineman’s thing. Don’t really know what it is. They just take £27.50 a week out of my payslip.

I send another £50 a week to BRASS. Don’t really know what that is either to be fair.

Other colleagues just recommended I joined them.

 

[Starmill]

I think the thing with Enginemans is that it was like the BR Savings Bank. It could be deducted through paybills so was simple and every so often you got a very pleasant surprise. Some of the earlier ones started in the late 90s had exceptionally good bonuses.

I’ve got another two £5 policy’s maturing next month that I started in 2013 which will pay out around £5k

I guess back in the day investing via your payroll saved a lot of hassle because you didn't need to return multiple postal forms or get a broker in. Nowadays anyone can invest from their phone or computer in a few clicks and with lower fees. The likes of Nutmeg and Wealthify do it all for you in no more work than your company one, but charge less in fees.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2023 ==

I’ve got an engineman’s thing. Don’t really know what it is. They just take £27.50 a week out of my payslip.

I send another £50 a week to BRASS. Don’t really know what that is either to be fair.

Other colleagues just recommended I joined them.

Think of BRASS as simply paying more money into your pension to get more pension income after retirement and you won't go far wrong. The Engineman's thing is more complex but you can think of it like paying a broker to invest a small part of your salary for you in the stock market.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I don’t really see the problem with engineman’s, if I put £20 a month in it for five years I’d get back £1200. What’s the matter with that? Am I missing something?

 

[43066]

I don’t really see the problem with engineman’s, if I put £20 a month in it for five years I’d get back £1200. What’s the matter with that? Am I missing something?

£20 a month for five years getting you £1200 isn’t great when you’d get the same return just by shoving the same £20 under the mattress!

 

[skyhigh]

£20 a month for five years getting you £1200 isn’t great when you’d get the same return just by shoving the same £20 under the mattress!

Exactly. I can get a better return on my money by sticking it in an easy access savings account that I can withdraw from at any point. With that in mind, why would I lock it away for 5 years for no benefit?

BRASS is a completely different thing and is well worth investing in.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

£20 a month for five years getting you £1200 isn’t great when you’d get the same return just by shoving the same £20 under the mattress!

I thought you don’t pay tax on it though you gain a bit that way.

Also what’s wrong with putting it under the mattress? I don’t understand the obsession of money turning into more money. Just keep what you’ve got for goodness sake.

 

[Zontar]

Just out of interest, what do drivers do where there's no brass scheme they can pay into?

 

[43066]

I thought you don’t pay tax on it though you gain a bit that way.

You’re also charged high fees on it, and the tax benefits are very marginal (the MSE thread linked above explains it well). Saving some tax only to pay it away in fund management fees and ending up with exactly the same amount you stated with is of no benefit at all.

Remember saving £1200 in cash over five years means you’ve actually lost money when you take into account the rate of inflation over that period. Even worse if you’ve had to lock that money up for five years - from that point of view it’s actually worse than shoving it under the mattress.

Also what’s wrong with putting it under the mattress? I don’t understand the obsession of money turning into more money. Just keep what you’ve got for goodness sake.

Ending up with more than you’ve started with is generally the point of making investments. Shoving it under the mattress is a guaranteed way to lose value, so will be a pretty ineffective way of saving for your future!

Why do you pay into a pension scheme (assuming you do)?

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I pay into a pension because my company set it up for me and I didn’t know it was optional. It just goes out of my payslip each month. I don’t know what a pension really is or how much I’ll get when I retire. I’ll honestly be surprised if I get there.

Don’t know what tax benefits means. I just save some money every month and hope I get it back one day. I’m not bothered about getting any more than that back.

 

[43066]

I don’t know what a pension really is or how much I’ll get when I retire. I’ll honestly be surprised if I get there.

It’s worth reading up to the point where you at least understand the basics - all the information is available online, and the railway pension scheme (assuming that’s what you’re in) gives statements and benefits projections if you register on the website.

None of us is guaranteed to get there, but just in case you do, it makes sense to make provision for funding your lifestyle once you’re too old to work.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

It’s worth reading up to the point where you at least understand the basics - all the information is available online, and the railway pension scheme (assuming that’s what you’re in) gives statements and benefits projections if you register on the website.

None of us is guaranteed to get there, but just in case you do, it makes sense to make provision for funding your lifestyle once you’re too old to work.

I’m registered on the website, but I don’t really know what I’m looking at on there! It’s all just greek to me. I just hope that if I do get there there will be some money for me. If not then c’est la vie.

 

[Efini92]

Just out of interest, what do drivers do where there's no brass scheme they can pay into?

Pay into a private pension I’m guessing.

Brass is definitely worth paying into. The earlier in your career you can start paying in the better.

 

[dk1]

I guess back in the day investing via your payroll saved a lot of hassle because you didn't need to return multiple postal forms or get a broker in. Nowadays anyone can invest from their phone or computer in a few clicks and with lower fees. The likes of Nutmeg and Wealthify do it all for you in no more work than your company one, but charge less in fees.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2023 ==

I do investing online and have done since the 2000s. I don't think of Enginemans like that really. It's just nice to get the £5k or so each year to blow on whatever I fancy without noticing the money going into it over the years.

 

[43066]

I’m registered on the website, but I don’t really know what I’m looking at on there! It’s all just greek to me. I just hope that if I do get there there will be some money for me. If not then c’est la vie.

Saying c’est la vie doesn’t pay the bills, last I checked. Frankly it’s a little scary, or at least it would scare me!

Surely you must have some idea of what a pension is, and what it does, otherwise why on earth do you pay into it?!

I’m clearly not expecting answers to those specific questions. It’s none of my business, but you must have some sort of financial plan in place for your future, surely!?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2023 ==

I do investing online and have done since the 2000s. I don't think of Enginemans like that really. It's just nice to get the £5k or so each year to blow on whatever I fancy without noticing the money going into it over the years.

I bet you know what a pension is. Scary what we read on here, at times.

 

[dk1]

I bet you know what a pension is. Scary what we read on here, at times.

I have a rough idea

 

[Traindriver40]

Can Anyone explain what the difference is between a brass pension and a private pension isa.

i understand Brass to be tax free so taken out your wages before tax ?

My question is, any Private isa pension gets a government tax top up when you deposit into it, so im trying to understand the difference or advantage of Brass compared to a standard private pension....

my assumption is you get no top up on Brass as it's tax free, however in a private pension you do because it wouldn't be tax free so you get that back....

if anyone can explain the advantage of a Brass pension over a typical private pension or maybe im missing something.

Main reason, i have a Private pension isa i pay into and invest in various things, this is topped up each month by the government, i want to know if its more beneficial to be in a Brass pension and why, it doesn't seem to me its any different to a normal private pension other than the tax free saving comes out your wages, rather than being reimbursed when you deposit.

 

[43066]

Can Anyone explain what the difference is between a brass pension and a private pension isa.

i understand Brass to be tax free so taken out your wages before tax ?

My question is, any Private isa pension gets a government tax top up when you deposit into it, so im trying to understand the difference or advantage of Brass compared to a standard private pension....

my assumption is you get no top up on Brass as it's tax free, however in a private pension you do because it wouldn't be tax free so you get that back....

An ISA and a pension are two very different beasts (are you thinking of SIPPs?).

Best advice really is to use the relevant websites to get an understanding and go from there. Nobody on here is qualified to give financial advice or, if they are, they certainly aren’t commenting on here in that capacity.

 

[Traindriver40]

An ISA and a pension are two very different beasts (are you thinking of SIPPs?).

Best advice really is to use the relevant websites to get an understanding and go from there. Nobody on here is qualified to give financial advice (or if they are, they certainly aren’t commenting on here in that capacity).

Sorry yes an SIPP

 

[greatkingrat]

The advantage of BRASS is that because it is linked to your main railway pension, the 25% tax-free lump sum is calculated on your total pension benefits, rather than separately for each scheme. This means that unless your BRASS fund is very large, you will be able to take the full amount tax-free when you retire. If you had the same amount in a private SIPP, you would only get 25% tax-free, the other 75% would be taxable when you withdraw it.