Brake Testing When Attaching Units

[Deepgreen]

A question:

What is the rule regarding the testing of brakes by drivers of trains that have just attached units (or detached, for that matter) at the last station? I ask because I use Redhill daily and usually catch a train that has just attached. On a significant proportion of occasions, the driver does not test the brakes (i.e. apply brakes sharply once up to about 40mph) just after leaving Redhill, leading me to suppose that it is not compulsory, but at drivers' discretion. However, for those trains that are running late, a large number of drivers still test the brakes, thereby adding further slight delay when it would seem unnecessary. If it is compulsory, why are such a significant number of drivers not doing it?

The same question applies to changing ends, with GWR trains leaving towards Reigate often (but far from always) doing a brake test and slowing to a crawl, even when already late.

This is not a "witch-hunt" question, but simply out of curiosity.

 

[Dave1987]

In the rule book it doesn't state that the brakes must be applied sharply during a running brake test. It merely states that you must perform a running brake test in accordance with your TOC's SOP's to ensure the brakes are working effectively. For my TOC you have to observe your train speed decrease by 10mph while you have step 2 brake on. In the train that won't feel like heavy braking as we routinely use step 2 in normal braking fro stations. I can perform this at any point before my first station stop or first restrictive signal aspect. It's entirely possible that the driver has performed a running brake test without you realising it.

 

[jopsuk]

I guess on some routes there may be a line speed reduction soon after that offers a handy point to "test"? Eg pulling out of Cambridge slowing for Shepreth Branch Junction?

 

[Dave1987]

Yeah I tend to pick areas where I know I won't lose time by doing a running brake test. You can lose a considerable amount of momentum if you do one in the wrong place and you then can struggle to get the speed up again. For instance on GEML once over the top of Chitts Hill on the up road if I'm stopping at Marks Tey I will probably do my brake test by braking very very early for the station and then incorporate it into the braking for the station by letting the train roll after completing the brake test until I start properly braking for Marks Tey, or if I'm not stopping at Marks Tey do my running brake test while coming down the bank as I know I can get my speed up again easily.

 

[455driver]

A question:

What is the rule regarding the testing of brakes by drivers of trains that have just attached units (or detached, for that matter) at the last station? I ask because I use Redhill daily and usually catch a train that has just attached. On a significant proportion of occasions, the driver does not test the brakes (i.e. apply brakes sharply once up to about 40mph) just after leaving Redhill, leading me to suppose that it is not compulsory, but at drivers' discretion. However, for those trains that are running late, a large number of drivers still test the brakes, thereby adding further slight delay when it would seem unnecessary. If it is compulsory, why are such a significant number of drivers not doing it?

The same question applies to changing ends, with GWR trains leaving towards Reigate often (but far from always) doing a brake test and slowing to a crawl, even when already late.

This is not a "witch-hunt" question, but simply out of curiosity.

Oh yes it is! :roll:
What you are basically saying is that the drivers who don't do a running brake test when the trains are on time are wrong, but the drivers who do a running brake test when the train is late are also wrong!

As for your "(i.e. apply brakes sharply once up to about 40mph)" since when has that been the rules regarding RBTs?

 

[andrewkeith5]

Oh yes it is! :roll:

What you are basically saying is that the drivers who don't do a running brake test when the trains are on time are wrong, but the drivers who do a running brake test when the train is late are also wrong!



As for your "(i.e. apply brakes sharply once up to about 40mph)" since when has that been the rules regarding RBTs?

That's a little harsh in your response- the OP is presumably working from their experience of the service and is openly asking to know what the procedure is, so slating them for not knowing the procedure is rather unfair.

 

[455driver]

That's a little harsh in your response- the OP is presumably working from their experience of the service and is openly asking to know what the procedure is, so slating them for not knowing the procedure is rather unfair.

Its not if you look at some of the other posts made or threads started by the OP!

Train driver friendly he aint! :roll:

 

[ComUtoR]

That's a little harsh in your response- the OP is presumably working from their experience of the service

From a very subjective perspective.

 

[GB]

That's a little harsh in your response- the OP is presumably working from their experience of the service and is openly asking to know what the procedure is, so slating them for not knowing the procedure is rather unfair.

The original post if full of negativity and supposition. Not surprised it garnered that response really.

 

[Deepgreen]

Oh yes it is! :roll:
What you are basically saying is that the drivers who don't do a running brake test when the trains are on time are wrong, but the drivers who do a running brake test when the train is late are also wrong!

As for your "(i.e. apply brakes sharply once up to about 40mph)" since when has that been the rules regarding RBTs?

NO IT IS NOT!! I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT ANY DRIVER IS RIGHT OR WRONG - I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THE RULES. It was a straightforward question about rules based on my experiences. I could not have made it clearer in my OP. Only those who have the well-known semi-paranoid tendency to bristle at any mention of driver behaviour (and who have been censured for it here before) would take it as anything else, especially as I spelt out the basis in simple words.

I don't understand your second statement/question - again, I was simply stating my experiences, NOT claiming to know precisely what the brake test should comprise.

 

[rebmcr]

NO IT IS NOT!! I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT ANY DRIVER IS RIGHT OR WRONG - I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THE RULES. It was a straightforward question about rules based on my experiences. I could not have made it clearer in my OP. Only those who have the well-known semi-paranoid tendency to bristle at any mention of driver behaviour (and who have been censured for it here before) would take it as anything else, especially as I spelt out the basis in simple words.

I don't understand your second statement/question - again, I was simply stating my experiences, NOT claiming to know precisely what the brake test should comprise.

This was very clear to me from your OP.

 

[GB]

A question:

What is the rule regarding the testing of brakes by drivers of trains that have just attached units (or detached, for that matter) at the last station?

Could have ended the OP right there.

 

[455driver]

Could have ended the OP right there.

But he didn't, he had to get all the other negative comments about train drivers in didn't he!

 

[carriageline]

To be fair, I'm not a driver and I read it as being a bit diggy and saying "drivers are being awkward and doing brake tests when they are late for no reason and make the service later"

I know that wasn't meant, but it's how it was read!

 

[ComUtoR]

Not to mention that a Running Brake Test is different from the Brake Continuity Test.

Even then I don't believe the rule book has anything specific about attaching of units in normal service as it would be a traction based rule.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When two Desiros are coupled together, just before the computers shut the cabs down do the computers do any sort of brake continuity test?

 

[455driver]

When two Desiros are coupled together, just before the computers shut the cabs down do the computers do any sort of brake continuity test?

Probably, the TMS does all sorts of things before allowing the driver to acknowledge the configuration and completely shutting down.

 

[Jamesb1974]

A question:

What is the rule regarding the testing of brakes by drivers of trains that have just attached units (or detached, for that matter) at the last station? I ask because I use Redhill daily and usually catch a train that has just attached. On a significant proportion of occasions, the driver does not test the brakes (i.e. apply brakes sharply once up to about 40mph) just after leaving Redhill, leading me to suppose that it is not compulsory, but at drivers' discretion. However, for those trains that are running late, a large number of drivers still test the brakes, thereby adding further slight delay when it would seem unnecessary. If it is compulsory, why are such a significant number of drivers not doing it?

The same question applies to changing ends, with GWR trains leaving towards Reigate often (but far from always) doing a brake test and slowing to a crawl, even when already late.

This is not a "witch-hunt" question, but simply out of curiosity.

Given that your sat inside the passenger compartment, with no forward view, how do you know that the brake applications you are feeling are running brake tests? The driver could have complied with his TOC's instructions and performed the test before you even knew about it. There is nothing to say that you must apply the brakes sharply. In fact, doing so could lead to wheel slide and the formation of wheel flats.

You've stated that on late running trains, you feel the drivers performing a running brake test. Given that a) they are late running and b) you can't see the line ahead, is it possible that the train you are travelling on is running under restrictive signalling??

The same goes for your comment about the GWR trains. You can't see what is ahead. Is there a speed restriction (permanent, temporary or emergency) at the place where the trains 'always slow to a crawl', or are they running under restrictive aspects?

Conducting a running brake test is mandatory when first getting on a train, but when and where is totally at the driver's discretion. My employer wants to see a brake application and a reduction in speed of between 10 and 12 mph, but they leave it to me whether I conduct it at 13 mph or 60 mph.

 

[A-driver]

A running brake test won't always be felt by passengers. It's not a full service application-a gentle step 1 or 2 application will do fine if that's the normal running brake of that class of train. It's down to driving styles weather it's a brake hard and late driver or a brake early and light one.

 

[driver9000]

When two Desiros are coupled together, just before the computers shut the cabs down do the computers do any sort of brake continuity test?

Yes it does although there is no visible evidence of it taking place. All that is required after that is a running brake test.

 

[whoosh]

In addition to occasions when drivers are required to undertake a running brake test, drivers can undertake a running brake test whenever they feel it necessary.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

(and) frequently during periods of extreme cold and snowfall.

 

[A-driver]

(and) frequently during periods of extreme cold and snowfall.

When snow is falling or being disturbed by trains in additional to a speed restriction a full service brake application needs to be made every few mins with a speed reduction of 10mph. It's a far more extreme brake test than an ordinary RBT which often passengers won't notice, stock dependant.

 

[455driver]

When snow is falling or being disturbed by trains in additional to a speed restriction a full service brake application needs to be made every few mins with a speed reduction of 10mph. It's a far more extreme brake test than an ordinary RBT which often passengers won't notice, stock dependant.

And is pretty pointless on stock fitted with regenerative or rheostatic braking because you wont put much heat into the brake components unless you put the DRA on (stock dependant) first which isolates the regen and reverts to the normal disc brakes.
Unfortunately we are not allowed to do that.

 

[scott118]

Conducting a running brake test is mandatory when first getting on a train, but when and where is totally at the driver's discretion.

x2. Irrespective of running, ahead, on time, or delayed.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Given that your sat inside the passenger compartment, with no forward view, how do you know that the brake applications you are feeling are running brake tests? The driver could have complied with his FOC's instructions and performed the test before you even knew about it.

Are you calling Deepgreen freight?

 

[Jamesb1974]

Are you calling Deepgreen freight?

Haha, not intentionally! Of course, I should have said TOC, but I was thinking of my own experience!

 

[A-driver]

And is pretty pointless on stock fitted with regenerative or rheostatic braking because you wont put much heat into the brake components unless you put the DRA on (stock dependant) first which isolates the regen and reverts to the normal disc brakes.

Unfortunately we are not allowed to do that.

Our local rules state we trip dynamic brakes out on 313s for snow conditions to get round this (99% of drivers trip them out anyway as the friction brake tends to be more predictable and reliable!)

Used to have to trip out the dynamic on 365s to but last time there was snow Hornsey stated they were fine to be left in as 365s use a blended brake in dynamic mode so they are still generating enough heat of step 3 is used. Sounds reasonable as step 2 dynamic also shows 1bar on the brake gauge and step 3 shows 2bar.

 

[455driver]

Are you calling Deepgreen freight?

Self Loading Freight, its quite a common term!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Our local rules state we trip dynamic brakes out on 313s for snow conditions to get round this (99% of drivers trip them out anyway as the friction brake tends to be more predictable and reliable!)

Used to have to trip out the dynamic on 365s to but last time there was snow Hornsey stated they were fine to be left in as 365s use a blended brake in dynamic mode so they are still generating enough heat of step 3 is used. Sounds reasonable as step 2 dynamic also shows 1bar on the brake gauge and step 3 shows 2bar.

It wasn't like that on Desiros the last time I drove them (a few years ago now), full service would give less than 0.5 bar which wouldn't produce much heat rendering the whole exercise pointless except for the disconcerting effect having the brakes slammed on for (effectively) no good reason had on the passengers.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Desiro's have a brake continuity wire and if there are any faults in it and the brakes don't release unless you use the emergency bypass, then it goes OOS.

Desiro's software has been altered quite significantly with the introduction of ASDO & the reverse button. Don't do it in the right sequence there's no traction power.