Brake tender position

[Peter Fox]

All the photos I've seen, you know the sort, a '40' etc and minerals, have the Brake Tender in front of the loco. Is there a reason for this?

 

[Cowley]

I have seen photos of locomotives pulling brake tenders, for example this one taken by John Lewis:


And also this one taken by edghillsignalman:


I read something just now (can’t find it again unfortunately) that the SR were more likely to run the tender behind the locomotive than other regions.
I must admit that I’d always thought that the tender would be attached for the whole day as in loco and tender being used as one unit regardless of which direction the train was traveling?
I’d be interested to know how it worked myself.

 

[rebmcr]

All the photos I've seen, you know the sort, a '40' etc and minerals, have the Brake Tender in front of the loco. Is there a reason for this?

The reason I've seen stated previously is that it provided just a little bit more physical protection to the driver.

 

[broadgage]

The reason I've seen stated previously is that it provided just a little bit more physical protection to the driver.

Possibly, but might also have simply been easier under some circumstances.
Locomotive already attached to wagons, but brake tender attached en-route, no need to uncouple wagons.
Whilst having the brake tender in front of the engine would seem a bit safer in case of accident, the trades unions were opposed to this and at times "blacked" trains with the brake tender in front of the engine.

I have heard, but can not substantiate, that the first brake tender had a flat top, but that this give rise to concerns about misuse by persons riding on the tender, or placing cycles etc. thereon. Curved tops were therefore used to deter such misuse.
IIRC the brake tenders were modified from old steam loco tenders, and filled with scrap iron and concrete.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

IIRC the brake tenders were modified from old steam loco tenders, and filled with scrap iron and concrete.

The wheels were former carriage bogies. I believe the tenders were otherwise newly constructed.

 

[Ploughman]

One Brake Tender has been recreated on the GCR
Featured in this post from last year:-

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/brake-tender-recreation-b964122.144108/

http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/2017/11/the-diesel-brake-tender/

 

[3973EXL]

The earliest British Railways General Appendix I have is dated 1972.

Operation of Brake Tenders quotes;

" 2. The maximum speed of brake tenders is 60 miles per hour.
Except during shunting movements brake tenders may not be propelled."

 

[XCTurbostar]

I have seen photos of locomotives pulling brake tenders, for example this one taken by John Lewis:
View attachment 57245

Looking at this image, it appears that there may be a small chance that this run was with two Brake Tenders being propelled?

 

[3973EXL]

Looking at this image, it appears that there may be a small chance that this run was with two Brake Tenders being propelled?

There appears to be a mineral wagon behind the tenders, so no.

 

[XCTurbostar]

There appears to be a mineral wagon behind the tenders, so no.

Sorry, Im talking about the top image not the bottom one. Both designs are typical of a Diesel Brake tender of the time. Looking back at the image, I may be wrong as the diesel fumes appear to be behind the loco suggesting it was pulling the load.

 

[3973EXL]

Sorry, Im talking about the top image not the bottom one.

So am I!

 

[Ploughman]

Sorry, Im talking about the top image not the bottom one. Both designs are typical of a Diesel Brake tender of the time. Looking back at the image, I may be wrong as the diesel fumes appear to be behind the loco suggesting it was pulling the load.

Looks like another view of the same train.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw26JdIrqHoUgH_ueSy1pUEX&ust=1546279035838958

 

[Cowley]

Looks like another view of the same train.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj53fTMkMjfAhUwyYUKHTR7Dc8QjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/dbt.html&psig=AOvVaw26JdIrqHoUgH_ueSy1pUEX&ust=1546279035838958

Sorry guys, sidetracked by Christmas/the pub etc...
Yes that’s the same train from the site I found and then couldn’t find again.
Thanks Ploughman.

 

[Taunton]

The bogies are from Gresley era passenger stock. Possibly the underframes were as well. Given their purpose, it is surprising that 6-wheel bogies were not used. There were a number of these (for example, LMS sleepers) being withdrawn at the time.

I presume they were braked by vacuum, to use the locomotive's standard connections.

 

[36270k]

In the early 70's brake tenders were sometimes used on coal trains behind class 73's from Acton yard to Norwood yard if there were insufficent vacuum braked wagons.