Bradford Forster Square Redevelopment: Rumour that ticket office to close?

[whhistle]

I'm not so sure. When do you think the last RTVs will be issued?

I also see no rush to make Rovers and Rangers available at TVMs or online.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see people being waved past barriers at stations with no ticket office for years to come.

That I agree with.
But I wonder how long rangers and rovers have left. Great value for those that use them, but they're not very well advertised or popular so could easily disappear and it wouldn't affect too many people.
Perhaps they'll make them available online. Fairly easy to do so.

I'd have thought rail vouchers will disappear, or at least become very rare within the next 5-8 years. TOCs could easily issue codes to use online instead. I'm surprised many don't now as I see a lot of "promo code" boxes around.

Photocards, railcards, refund applications, tickets with a staff travel discount, season ticket changeovers, tickets from another station... (you have typically not thought this through).

Photocards aren't sold. Maybe these new sellers will simply be able to give them out?

Railcards: Have you not noticed the very recent push to buy online? They're all going digital, and within the next few years, I suspect bigger and bigger pushes to get them online and have digital ones will be ever greater.

Refund Applications: No, but you'd send them off to a customer relations department.

Staff Travel Discount: If nationalisation happens, it'll be free travel everywhere. If it doesn't, many guards don't care anyway and allow staff to travel for free.

Season Ticket Changeovers: Talk to a ticket office person. Ask them when they did this last. It's almost easier to apply for a refund of the original and buy the new one.

Tickets from another station: When people become better at using the machines, they'll start to offer the option to buy tickets from another station. In fact, I'm sure the Virgin ones already do this.

Whether you like it or not, Ticket Offices WILL close. Other methods of retailing tickets that can't easily be bought online will be found.

A monthly season ticket isnt something purchased by a "normal traveller"?

These can easily be bought online, if the industry chooses to.
Again, around Birmingham, those paying by direct debit get a discount and the ticket it sent to them in the post.
When you start looking properly, you'll see there are solutions that can be implimented very easily to solve these "problems" you have thought of.

Would it be possible to upgrade tvm software so they could sell advance tickets, rovers and seasons?

Yeah very easily. This is done elsewhere and has been for years - although it doesn't seem Northern are interested.

Hold on, so you've moaned it's a problem but you're also fully agreeing that ticket machines could sell rovers or seasons? Decide your point of view. Either it's a problem or not.

 

[Bantamzen]

Just to reiterate, as the point seems to have been missed. There is no final design for the Bradford Forster Square refurbishment, as the consolation has only just concluded. Its likely to be some time before one is finalised, agreed and approved, and the works are not likely to be completed until at least 2021. So people panicking about getting a Bradford - Addingham ticket need not do so just yet (although I've yet to meet anyone who makes that journey regularly and doesn't have an MCard zones 1-5, thereby negating the need for a irregular train & bus ticket, but hey ho).

What might happen during the works is either a total closure to allow the existing structure to be demolished, and so either a temporary office erected or sales from revenue staff at the gateline. Maybe this is where the rumour started?

 

[ooo]

Staff Travel Discount: If nationalisation happens, it'll be free travel everywhere. If it doesn't, many guards don't care anyway and allow staff to travel for free.

If Staff were around the machines could be set up so staff could authorise the discount just like with alcohol purchases from self checkouts

 

[ainsworth74]

Hold on, so you've moaned it's a problem but you're also fully agreeing that ticket machines could sell rovers or seasons? Decide your point of view. Either it's a problem or not.

I believe the point they are making is that TVMs could easily be given the majority of functionality that a ticket office can provide in terms of retailing products. But, unless there is a change of policy, it seems unlikely that TVMs with such functionality will be installed to replace the closed ticket offices therefore meaning a loss of passenger choice. I don't see that the two positions are contradictory.

If Staff were around the machines could be set up so staff could authorise the discount just like with alcohol purchases from self checkouts

Similar to how TVMs on the London Underground operate now that ticket offices are no more on LU. If you want, for example, a railcard loading onto an Oyster card, then you simply approach a member of staff at a station and they can go over to a TVM with you and load it.

 

[LowLevel]

Re rail travel vouchers. I used to see them all the time.

Since delay repay changed to make bank transfer available I've not seen a single one.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If the ticket office at Forster Square closes, could this mean that one could instead buy their ticket at the Interchange before walking to Forster Square and boarding a service there? As I’m sure tickets issued to or from Bradford are marked as Bradford Stns and as Bradford Forster Square is at the end of a long cul-de-sac and already has another staffed station does the city of Bradford West Yorkshire really need to have two ticket offices?

The availability of ranger and rover tickets should be made available via the TVMs, but what people need to remember is that the West Yorkshire DayRovers are printed on specialist ticket stock rather than the bog standard orange card so the machines would need to be geared to print on additional stock. People in West Yorkshire are most likely to purchase upon boarding a bus is either a FirstDay or in Wakefield an Arriva Saver, rather than a single or a return. I don’t think that the ranger and rover tickets will be scrapped as they’re popular with families and couples who are having a day out somewhere. Plus they work out cheaper than having to purchase additional tickets as not everywhere is covered by Plusbus. So it’s not just your run-of-the-mill enthusiast who will still buy them en mass.

I can see the day where eventually minor staffed station stations e.g. Bradford on Avon, Billingshurst, Pulborough, Cross Gates and many more will be de-staffed and replaced with a faceless touch screen. The only stations that will be staffed will be those which are either in a major city centre, those at county towns and those located at junctions where there is significant traffic flow e.g. Shipley, Westbury, Earlstown, Newton Abbot, etc.

 

[skyhigh]

I believe the point they are making is that TVMs could easily be given the majority of functionality that a ticket office can provide in terms of retailing products. But, unless there is a change of policy, it seems unlikely that TVMs with such functionality will be installed to replace the closed ticket offices therefore meaning a loss of passenger choice. I don't see that the two positions are contradictory.

The new machines Northern were installing were meant to include a feature called Virtual Ticket Office - whereby the Assistance button could be pressed and you could talk to an actual person who could sell a full range of fares via the machine. Though as far as I can tell the button currently does nothing - and a quick Google doesn't reveal any announcements about the feature... so it might have been quietly dropped, although the Franchise Agreement didn't require it until 2021. If it is launched, however, it should solve most of the issues raised here.

Included for interest from the franchise agreement:

VIRTUAL TICKET OFFICE TVMS - means a TVM which is suitable for an outdoor environment and provides ticket purchase functionality, real-time information on passenger services, customer assistance with journey planning and VideoAssist functionality

69.1 The Franchisee Shall -
by no later than 31 March 2021, install and thereafter operate at least (i) 217 Virtual Ticket Office TVMs at Stations

I'll ask around and see if anyone knows anything further.

 

[ashworth]

Tickets from another station: When people become better at using the machines, they'll start to offer the option to buy tickets from another station. In fact, I'm sure the Virgin ones already do this.

My experience is generally the opposite of this and where buying tickets form another station has been offered this has in many cases been removed. For example just about all of Southerns machines until recently offered the facility of buying tickets from another station. They have recently replaced most of their machines with new machines which do not offer this facility. EMT have this facility on offer on their machines but it only works for a very small selection of stations.

I don’t think the TOCs want to offer this facility as it enables people in the know to be able to save money by buying split tickets direct from the machines. Also where there are loopholes and fare anomalies it allows you to buy a ticket from another destinations and start short etc. The TOCs don’t want people doing that.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

@NorthernSpirit with regard to DayRover ticket stock, they can also be printed on standard stock, as they were way back in the day when bought from the old ex-NSE FastTicket machines in the 1990s and when ticket offices have run out of the specialist stock. As for Bradford only needing one ticket office, that's all well and good until the powers that be decide to close the one at BDI too. A single ticket office for the city sounds like something advocates of Bradford Crossrail would suggest!

I'd accept ticket office closures and making staff redundant if for every frontline redundancy there's also one in middle or upper management (or the DfT, as they're the ones driving the cuts).

 

[Starmill]

Hold on, so you've moaned it's a problem but you're also fully agreeing that ticket machines could sell rovers or seasons? Decide your point of view. Either it's a problem or not.

Not selling the entire range of tickets from a ticket machine is a problem (I think an SNCF ticket machine can even issue new railcards etc). It could be done, but the train operator chooses not to. Thus there is a problem. I'm sorry that this is unclear for you.

When you start looking properly, you'll see there are solutions that can be implimented very easily to solve these "problems" you have thought of.

So what's the excuse for not having implemented them? I don't see one in your post or anyone else's. Just blustering about enthiasts

 

[Bantamzen]

Is there any chance of keeping this thread on topic please? Its about the proposed changes to the station building at Forster Square, not the availability of rover tickets from TVMs.

 

[whhistle]

It could be done, but the train operator chooses not to. Thus there is a problem. I'm sorry that this is unclear for you

So what's the excuse for not having implemented them? I don't see one in your post or anyone else's.

It's not unclear, but thank you for your slight touch of rudeness.

TOCs "choose not to" because there is no incentive to do so at the moment., They have ticket offices at the moment but as ticket offices close I bet more options will be added to machines... obviously.

Why would a TOC pay for a machine upgrade unless they're serious about closing ticket offices?

I don’t think the TOCs want to offer [buying tickets at station A from station B to C] as it enables people in the know to be able to save money by buying split tickets direct from the machines. The TOCs don’t want people doing that.

Or just that most people want tickets from the station they're at?

Or perhaps that the TOCs think people are stupid (they're not wrong!) so restricting certain things can actually be helpful.

If it means you have to visit another machine to buy another ticket at another point, so be it. For the small amount of people it'll bother, it's not worth the TOCs worry.
That is, until they start offering all stations.

 

[Starmill]

t's not unclear, but thank you for your slight touch of rudeness

I'm not sure how someoe who posts this in this manner:

Hold on, so you've moaned it's a problem but you're also fully agreeing that ticket machines could sell rovers or seasons? Decide your point of view. Either it's a problem or not.

Has the right to complain about others being rude? Not that there was anything rude to complain about.

 

[noddingdonkey]

@NorthernSpirit with regard to DayRover ticket stock, they can also be printed on standard stock, as they were way back in the day when bought from the old ex-NSE FastTicket machines in the 1990s and when ticket offices have run out of the specialist stock.

Wasn't the alleged issue that bus drivers would refuse a ticket on the wrong stock? Surely now that PlusBus is a thing and they could be presented with a train ticket more routinely that's no longer an issue?

 

[cnicht]

I have been told by WYCA that the combined Bus and Train day rover is one of the best selling of their tickets and the Senior day rover train only is also very popular

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wasn't the alleged issue that bus drivers would refuse a ticket on the wrong stock? Surely now that PlusBus is a thing and they could be presented with a train ticket more routinely that's no longer an issue?

I certainly never experienced that, and as the tickets clearly said "TRAIN & BUS" and "DAY RANGER" on them, woe betide any bus driver that tried to refuse an obviously valid ticket I was carrying!

 

[AndyHudds]

I once had one issued on standard ticket stock and had a right furore getting it accepted on the bus.

 

[whhistle]

I'm not sure how someoe who posts this in this manner has the right to complain about others being rude? Not that there was anything rude to complain about.

The way you wrote it suggested that the "problem" is simple and I am too thick to understand it. I find the insinuation on the rude side. My post you quoted was one of confusion that you agree with something but also seem to be against it. Nothing rude about it, just confusion.

 

[Starmill]

The way you wrote it suggested that the "problem" is simple and I am too thick to understand it. I find the insinuation on the rude side. My post you quoted was one of confusion that you agree with something but also seem to be against it. Nothing rude about it, just confusion.

So you are continuing to complain about my tone, despite y having employed a very combative tone yourself? I don't think there is anything I can do about that.