Bracknell MP - service to Waterloo unacceptable

[yorksrob]

It’s three trains in late evening that terminate at Bracknell. So Bracknell still has the same level of service from London, it’s the Wokingham to Reading stretch that loses three trains.

Yes, that's as bad - considering people will be wanting to get to Wokingham and Reading. I'm surprised the Hon Member for Wokingham hasn't got involved .

 

[cactustwirly]

I suspect a lot of users from Bracknell and Wokingham drive/taxi to Maidenhead/Twyford for the cheaper fares and more frequent service. Especially since the Elizabeth line has opened

 

[43096]

I suspect a lot of users from Bracknell and Wokingham drive/taxi to Maidenhead/Twyford for the cheaper fares and more frequent service. Especially since the Elizabeth line has opened

It would be interesting to see how travel patterns have changed in that area since the Elizabeth line opened.

 

[cactustwirly]

It would be interesting to see how travel patterns have changed in that area since the Elizabeth line opened.

I know it was popular with commuters pre-covid as both stations had fast services to Paddington and the seasons were significantly cheaper

With the Elizabeth line, Paddington is a lot more connected now and probably a lot more convenient for the west end too

 

[Class 170101]

Yes, that's as bad - considering people will be wanting to get to Wokingham and Reading. I'm surprised the Hon Member for Wokingham hasn't got involved .

John Redwood isn't it? Wouldn't expect much from him where the railway is concerned. A right winger so probably favours private transport.

 

[43096]

I know it was popular with commuters pre-covid as both stations had fast services to Paddington and the seasons were significantly cheaper

With the Elizabeth line, Paddington is a lot more connected now and probably a lot more convenient for the west end too

If you live in that area and work at Canary Wharf, it is probably now a lot more attractive to get the Elizabeth line direct than do the slow train to Waterloo for the Jubilee line.

 

[Goldfish62]

It was only December 2022 that the trains terminating at Bracknell were introduced using the new signal installed when the line was resignalled. IIRC prior to that it was mostly half hourly to Reading but with one hour long gap.

Before Covid it was 2tph throughout until last train. Then there was an hour gap and the last train removed. Now the last train and the 2050 restored, but with three services terminating at Bracknell.

 

[yorksrob]

John Redwood isn't it? Wouldn't expect much from him where the railway is concerned. A right winger so probably favours private transport.

Yes, John Redwood. Don't have much knowledge of his railway views, so didn't want to pre-empt !

 

[Goldfish62]

I suspect a lot of users from Bracknell and Wokingham drive/taxi to Maidenhead/Twyford for the cheaper fares and more frequent service. Especially since the Elizabeth line has opened

Absolute madness. I've lived here and commuted for decades and never ever have I heard of anyone choosing to drive to Maidenhead to catch a train from there instead.

Incidentally, Bracknell is a larger town than Maidenhead, being the third largest town in Berkshire after Reading and Slough.

 

[cactustwirly]

Absolute madness. I've lived here and commuted for decades and never ever have I heard of anyone choosing to drive to Maidenhead to catch a train from there instead.

Incidentally, Bracknell is a larger town than Maidenhead, being the third largest town in Berkshire after Reading and Slough.

Why is it Madness? An Anytime travel card from Maidenhead is £33 which compared to £40 from Bracknell. Plus the train is 30 minutes in the peak so half the time from Bracknell.

I know Twyford is railhead for lots of people from Wokingham definitely

 

[Goldfish62]

Why is it Madness? An Anytime travel card from Maidenhead is £33 which compared to £40 from Bracknell. Plus the train is 30 minutes in the peak so half the time from Bracknell.

I know Twyford is railhead for lots of people from Wokingham definitely

Oh for God's sake. It takes 30+ min to drive from Bracknell to Maidenhead in the morning peak, then to find somewhere to park. It simply doesn't happen.

 

[JonathanH]

It takes 30+ min to drive from Bracknell to Maidenhead, then to find parking. It simply doesn't happen.

Yes, but if you live on the south or north side of either Bracknell or Wokingham, driving to the adjacent lines may well be attractive, depending on the destination in London.

SWR would not have cut the evening services beyond Bracknell just to be spiteful.

 

[PG]

Oh, our esteemed MP has woken up.

I suspect this is classic lazy journalism, possibly prompted by the MPs press office.

Looking at Hansard the MP only spoke to introduce the Transport Secretary who was speaking about modernising the railway. Sutherland then tacked on a supplementary question referencing the SWR service at Bracknell presumably so he could appear relevant in the eyes of his constituents.

In the 3 years since being elected he has spoken about railways a grand total of twice, and the other occasion was similar, again serving to introduce the Transport Secretary who spoke about the forthcoming introduction of flexible season tickets.

 

[Goldfish62]

SWR would not have cut the evening services beyond Bracknell just to be spiteful.

The 2050 and 2350 MF from Waterloo were cut during Covid. These were restored in December, but with the 2050, 2150 and 2250 terminating at Bracknell.

Nothing to do with usage. Keeping costs the same as the Covid timetable by using the newly signalled crossover at Bracknell.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jan 2023 ==

I suspect this is classic lazy journalism, possibly prompted by the MPs press office.

Looking at Hansard the MP only spoke to introduce the Transport Secretary who was speaking about modernising the railway. Sutherland then tacked on a supplementary question referencing the SWR service at Bracknell presumably so he could appear relevant in the eyes of his constituents.

In the 3 years since being elected he has spoken about railways a grand total of twice, and the other occasion was similar, again serving to introduce the Transport Secretary who spoke about the forthcoming introduction of flexible season tickets.

Well yes. He was elected in 2019 no doubt expecting that after his army career he was on to a cushy risk-free number until retirement. It's probably recently dawned on him that this might now be at risk so he's woken up, or at least tried to.

 

[Craig1122]

As well as the cuts to the evening service (hourly is ridiculous for such a heavily populated area) the day time service has been heavily cut back as well. It was effectively every 15 minutes in peak and shoulder peak pre covid, at least as far as Ascot. Now it's half hourly with a couple of extras to Camberley.

Trains are now coming into the London area full and standing in the evening. Yet again short term cost cutting wins over making rail an attractive option that people might actually choose.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2023 ==

Michael Holden shared some very insightful thoughts about the current state of rail on LinkedIn recently. The poor service on the Windsor lines (both speed and frequency) and failure of the current resignalling to improve that situation come in for particular criticism.

 

[cactustwirly]

Oh for God's sake. It takes 30+ min to drive from Bracknell to Maidenhead in the morning peak, then to find somewhere to park. It simply doesn't happen.

Not if you live near Warfield and take the back roads.
It's still a lengthy drive from there to Bracknell station anyway.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not if you live near Warfield and take the back roads.
It's still a lengthy drive from there to Bracknell station anyway.

If you want to be pedantic about it yes.

It is also a fact that people in Sandhurst and Crowthorne drive to Martins Heron or Bracknell to catch the train rather than use the North Downs Line and change at Wokingham.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2023 ==

As well as the cuts to the evening service (hourly is ridiculous for such a heavily populated area) the day time service has been heavily cut back as well. It was effectively every 15 minutes in peak and shoulder peak pre covid, at least as far as Ascot. Now it's half hourly with a couple of extras to Camberley.

It was in fact six trains an hour in the high peak pre-Covid, being 4tph to/from Reading and 2tph to Aldershot via Ascot.

In fact the briefly operated December 2019 timetable was one of the best ever in terms of frequency with a period of four to five hours across both peaks with a 4tph service to/from Reading. I suspect we will never see that again.

As discussed several times on these forums it's very difficult to speed up services without someone missing out and now it's practically impossible given the likely long term 2tph service. A trade off against poor journey times was increasing the frequency, but now that has gone backwards.

What isn't helping is the seemingly interminable weekend closures for the Feltham area re - signalling. Last year the line rarely had a full weekend of "normal" timetables and this looks set to be the same this year and continuing well into next year.

Finally, it feels as if SWR no longer regard the line as a core part of the network, seemingly giving priority to the much quieter Windsor branch in times of industrial action related disruption. Case in point is when that strike action was cancelled at short notice in November the part reinstated network for a few days did not feature any services west of Staines towards Reading, leaving Bracknell as the largest town on the whole SWR network without any train service. I did write to Sunderland about this issue and my concern that SWR was no longer prioritising the line. I got an uninterested reply from one of his staff, but perhaps the message has now started to get through.

 

[PG]

He was elected in 2019 no doubt expecting that after his army career he was on to a cushy risk-free number until retirement. It's probably recently dawned on him that this might now be at risk so he's woken up, or at least tried to.

I took a peek at his Maiden Speech from 7.45pm on the 9th of March 2020, it contains this gem to which his response seems contemptible!

...I was proudly informed by one constituent—please forgive me for quoting exactly—that

“you could win in Bracknell by pinning a blue rosette to a dog turd”.

I did, of course, thank him for what I took to be a compliment...

 

[Goldfish62]

I took a peek at his Maiden Speech from 7.45pm on the 9th of March 2020, it contains this gem to which his response seems contemptible!

Yes, he's an extremely arrogant person.

Recent local polling has suggested that he might be in trouble at the next election. Worst MP we've ever had and needs to go.

 

[Mwanesh]

You guys are lucky you can talk to your mp. Ours in the Welsh Valley have never seen him. Even when we were flooded in February 2020 he never appeared. Boris did show up.

 

[nw1]

Yes, he's an extremely arrogant person.

Recent local polling has suggested that he might be in trouble at the next election. Worst MP we've ever had and needs to go.

I remember the predecessor was Phillip Lee who crossed the floor. Not sure how good he was (but the fact he left the Tory party speaks volumes, IMO). I guess this replacement, like a lot of the 2019 candidates, was hurriedly sourced due to that stupid out-of-the-blue mid-winter election.

 

[fandroid]

Except that's incorrect.

Well, it's on journey planners for next Friday/Saturday too. Hourly western departures from Bracknell from 21.20 to 00.20, then two more half hourly departures until 01.20.

 

[nw1]

I don't think the issue is whether the 8 carriage trains fill up west of Bracknell - I imagine very few London commuter services are full at the outer end.

It's more the issue of maintaining a decent interval service of the sort that attracts walk-on travel.

Indeed. Like the half-hourly service of single 4VEPs provided in the 80s for the late-night services. Same capacity per hour, but more useful.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. Like the half-hourly service of single 4VEPs provided in the 80s for the late-night services. Same capacity per hour, but more useful.

Indeed. A service like Waterloo - Reading really needs to be half-hourly throughout the day.

 

[43096]

Trains are now coming into the London area full and standing in the evening. Yet again short term cost cutting wins over making rail an attractive option that people might actually choose.

The trains are roughly the same loadings as pre-pandemic in my experience, but the service is 50% of what it was in the peak. The implication is that loadings are overall 50% of what they were hence the service cuts. I’m not sure what else you would expect? If revenue is down (as it is, significantly) then cost HAS to come out.

 

[JonathanH]

Indeed. A service like Waterloo - Reading really needs to be half-hourly throughout the day.

It is half hourly throughout the day, and as far as Bracknell it is now once again half hourly through the evening.

The North Downs Line has never been half hourly after 2130. The Alton line is now hourly in the evening. It isn't inconsistent for the Waterloo to Reading line to be hourly beyond Bracknell in the later evening. People adapt.

It is no good looking at a timetable on paper and saying that a service should be half hourly. The number of passengers wanting to make the journey has to be taken into account.

It is a shame that it turns back at Bracknell rather than Wokingham, but that is a function of the timetable.

 

[yorksrob]

It is half hourly throughout the day, and as far as Bracknell it is now once again half hourly through the evening.

The North Downs Line has never been half hourly after 2130. The Alton line is now hourly in the evening. It isn't inconsistent for the Waterloo to Reading line to be hourly beyond Bracknell in the later evening. People adapt.

It is no good looking at a timetable on paper and saying that a service should be half hourly. The number of passengers wanting to make the journey has to be taken into account.

By "day" I mean the operational day.

It's no good cutting back from what's a useful walk-on service as the passenger numbers will decline to meet it

 

[nw1]

It is half hourly throughout the day, and as far as Bracknell it is now once again half hourly through the evening.

The North Downs Line has never been half hourly after 2130. The Alton line is now hourly in the evening. It isn't inconsistent for the Waterloo to Reading line to be hourly beyond Bracknell in the later evening. People adapt.

It is no good looking at a timetable on paper and saying that a service should be half hourly. The number of passengers wanting to make the journey has to be taken into account.

Though it was half-hourly at that time in the evening as long ago as 1981, and IIRC ever since then: so it has been the norm in modern times. It looks like it was mostly half-hourly in the 60s, too.

In 1981 it was half hourly until 2258 (out of Waterloo) though this last train required a change at Ascot. In 1967 it was half hourly until 2158, then a gap, then 2258.

 

[fandroid]

Though it was half-hourly at that time in the evening as long ago as 1981, and IIRC ever since then: so it has been the norm in modern times. It looks like it was mostly half-hourly in the 60s, too.

In 1981 it was half hourly until 2258 (out of Waterloo) though this last train required a change at Ascot. In 1967 it was half hourly until 2158, then a gap, then 2258.

The service next Tuesday from Waterloo to Reading is:
19.50
20.20
21.20
22.20
23.20
23.50

As mentioned before there are more trains on Fridays

 

[Craig1122]

Finally, it feels as if SWR no longer regard the line as a core part of the network, seemingly giving priority to the much quieter Windsor branch in times of industrial action related disruption. Case in point is when that strike action was cancelled at short notice in November the part reinstated network for a few days did not feature any services west of Staines towards Reading, leaving Bracknell as the largest town on the whole SWR network without any train service. I did write to Sunderland about this issue and my concern that SWR was no longer prioritising the line. I got an uninterested reply from one of his staff, but perhaps the message has now started to get through.

In the final couple of BR years the Windsor service was cut back from half hourly to hourly after 20:00. Stagecoach reversed this change a few years later to make it half hourly for the full traffic day. Usage followed that change to head upwards. It's been proved time & again that increasing frequency can dramatically increase usage. My favourite local example is the Hounslow loop where the increase from half hourly to every 15 minutes (now largely reversed) saw passenger numbers triple within a year or two.

It's true as someone says further down the thread that people will adapt, but an hourly service is pretty useless is you're doing something where you can't control the time you're travelling (medical appointments, fixed work times) so that adaptation is likely to be that they stop using the railway.

Personal interest in this one as it's my local area and I use a station served by Windsor trains. It's notable that it used to be common for people to drive in to use an underground station and that's something I hardly ever hear of now the evening service has improved.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2023 ==

Also of note is that the Sunday service sees more trains to Reading than Windsor so the weekday situation is reversed. This despite Windsor being a major draw for tourists at the weekend. So it looks very much like a timetable for operational rather than customer convenience.