BR std 8 Duke of Gloucester what if

[martin butler]

The sole BR standard 8 4-6-2 was built to replace an engine destroyed in a crash, but what if it was a prototype for a new class of BR standard loco, to replace the older designs of express passenger locos, what would a new class have replaced, and would the designers have stuck with the same valve gear, or reverted to type and fitted a more simple design same as used by most other standards ?

 

[Acathater]

Some would say it was in reality built as a prototype, though others say it was a Riddles vanity project.
If it was a genuine prototype, the build of a production batch wouldn't have happened until Riddles & Co had worked out why it performed so badly - which would have meant recognising the build errors in (from memory) the fire grate and draughting due to mistakes by Swindon and others in following the plans. Presumably that had the possibility to degenerate into another Swindon vs "the rest" mud slinging argument over blame.
Does rather beg the question over whether Swindon deliberately created the errors to discredit the design as they were hoping for diesels to replace their express locos...

 

[Elecman]

The Railway Executive at the time saw no need for Standard class 8 locomotive as they considered there was plentiful supply of class 8 engines from the pre nationalised rail companies stock.
However when the Princes Anne Pacific loco was written off in the Harrow and Wealdstone crash Riddles persuaded them to replace it with his version of a class 8

 

[martin butler]

I'm wondering this, had steam been not replaced so quickly, but over a longer time span, then, it's possible that older designs would have been withdrawn, replaced by newer easier to operate standard locomotives, so in theory a single standard class 8 design would have replaced the LMS, Duchesses, Princess royals, LNER A types, and the GW kings,

 

[etr221]

Given that both the LMSR and LNER had pre-war (or later) proposals for new, larger express passenger locos (4-6-4/4-8-2/4-8-4), I am slightly surprised that British Railways under Riddles did not come up with something similar, rather than a new 'Class 8', as 'Duke of Gloucester' was. There certainly seems to be something of a lack of ambition in the choice of standard types, in that they basically offered 'like for like' replacements for what was, without new, larger types - one might have expected a larger, 8 coupled suburban tank (similar perhaps to the Indian WT 2-8-4T, German 65 or the various French and Czech classes), and a larger freight class - perhaps something similar the Australian NSWGR class 60 Garratt)

I'm wondering this, had steam been not replaced so quickly, but over a longer time span, then, it's possible that older designs would have been withdrawn, replaced by newer easier to operate standard locomotives, so in theory a single standard class 8 design would have replaced the LMS, Duchesses, Princess royals, LNER A types, and the GW kings,

My understanding is that there were thoughts/proposals for a mass replacement of pre-nationalisation types by their BR standard equivalents, with estimated numbers of the standards required being drawn up.

 

[E27007]

Crewe and Swindon took over loco design for BR, to the exclusion of the LNER, yet their Peppercorn A1 , a Gresley with the faults corrected, showed the A1 to be a powerful economical locomotive capable of high-mileages between works visits.
The Duke a product of Riddles, yes, but what of Freddie Harrison, CME of BR and a Gresley "bright young man"?
I cannot ignore the similarity of designs of the Duke and the work of Gresley during his experimental period of the P2 class rotary valve gear and three-cylinders, a pity Crewe and Swindon made such a mess of the construction of the Duke, an act of sabotage or simply incompetence?