BR Era Pullmans

[TheEdge]

I've come to have 3 of the current Hornby Pullmans and am after an idea of what a prototypical loco hauled Pullman rake would consist of.

Currently I've got a 3rd Class Kitchen Car (R4165), 1st Class Kitchen Car (R4480) and a 2nd Class Parlour (R4484). They are all the newer style (sprung buffers, table lamps etc) main range models rather than railroad. What other sort of vehicles would I expect to see and how many? I'm guessing some sort of brake vehicle and more parlours. How many and what class?

 

[sprinterguy]

These Hornby Pullmans are all of the "K" type, which were built between 1923 and 1931 to operate the "Queen of Scots" Pullman of the LNER and the "Bournemouth Belle" of the Southern, amongst others.

A fairly comprehensive list of Pullman car allocations can be found here:
http://www.britishrailways.info/pullman_cars.htm

There were no hard and fast rules to Pullman train formations. From a thread on a different forum, here are some typical formations, and one specifically for the “Queen of Scots” Pullman on the LNER, which utilised two similarly formed rakes:

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14616
The loco hauled Pullman services on the East Coast route which were what I know best, typically had formations based around Kitchen and Parlour pairs, topped and tailed with brake cars, their guards brake end on the outside of the formation. A typical formation was Brake 3rd, Kitchen 3rd, Parlour 3rd, Kitchen 1st, Parlour 1st, Parlour 3rd, Kitchen 3rd, Brake 3rd. The kitchen locations were arranged so that the kitchen end of the vehicle was in the middle of the pair of cars it served to aid the efficiency of the table service. To extend the train, add Kitchen/Parlour pairs is the general rule, if adding only a single car, the kitchen vehicle goes on.

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14616
THE QUEEN OF SCOTS PULLMAN:

2nd Kitchen King's Cross - Leeds Central
1st Kitchen " "

2nd Brake King's Cross - Glasgow Queen St
2nd Kitchen " "
2nd Parlour " "
1st Parlour " "
1st Parlour " "
1st Kitchen " "
2nd Parlour " "
2nd Kitchen " "
2nd Brake " "

Notes:

Luggage for Leeds, Harrogate and Darlington to be loaded in the front 2nd Brake

Luggage for Newcastle, Edinburgh and Glasgow to be loaded in the rear 2nd Brake

Totasl vehicles:

King's Cross - Leeds 10

Leeds - Glasgow 8

Some more details of the two “Queen of Scots” Pullman rakes used on the LNER can be found here:
http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9058

Note that, for the BR era, many of the LNER Pullman cars of the "K" type were displaced to the Southern region in 1960 following the introduction of mark 1 based Metro-Cammell Pullman vehicles.

The Pullman services that operated over the Southern Railway, such as the “Bournemouth Belle” and “Golden Arrow” were typically lengthier affairs, the “Bournemouth Belle” often loading to 12 coaches. A range of information on (and images of) the Southern Pullman trains can be found here by clicking on the appropriate menu links:
http://www.semgonline.com/misc/named_01.html

Here’s a typical formation for the Bournemouth Belle, from 1946:

http://www.kentrail.org.uk/bournemouth_belle.htm
Third Class Brake Parlour
Third Class Kitchen Car
Third Class Kitchen Car
Third Class Parlour Car
Third Class Parlour Car
First Class Kitchen Car
First Class Kitchen Car
First Class Parlour Car
Third Class Kitchen Car
Third Class Brake Parlour

 

[TheEdge]

Thats exactly what I was looking for. Although a new question is raised. Second and third? Are they the same or different. It seemed they either had first and second or first and third.

 

[sprinterguy]

Thats exactly what I was looking for. Although a new question is raised. Second and third? Are they the same or different. It seemed they either had first and second or first and third.

I’m not sure on that one: I thought that the Pullman company only operated a two class system in the UK, and second/third are being used interchangeably online here to refer to the same thing. My knowledge of Pullman trains doesn’t stretch far enough to confirm or otherwise unfortunately.

 

[Taunton]

Standard accommodation on all UK trains, regular and Pullman, was known as Third until 1956, when the expression was changed to Second. The vehicles themselves were not altered. Of course, in more recent times the expression changed again, from Second to Standard.

There was still Second Class, which had otherwise disappeared from UK trains in the late Victorian period, on boat trains from Victoria to Dover until 1956, to align with Continental practice, where three classes had to some extent been retained until then. There was a small batch of BR Mk 1 open vehicles built to this design, First Class seat width 2+1 but 8-bay Third Class seat pitch.