anthony263
Established Member
I agree there there needs to be promotions so the public know's there will be some services running on boxing day.
As is said if there is a service people will use it providing they know about it.
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Boxing Day: Should there be scheduled trains?
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I agree there there needs to be promotions so the public know's there will be some services running on boxing day.
As is said if there is a service people will use it providing they know about it.
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E16 Cyclist
Member
If there was demand the private rail companies would have found ways to run services years ago, but as its not a franchise requirement the toc's are unwilling to guarantee the revenue risk. Even services running on the 27th and 28th in previous years have been very quiet.
The solution would be for the DfT to subsidise boxing day services and this would be unpopular as the rail companies are all privately owned.
Skimpot flyer
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No, they are run to comply with the minimum service levels required by the terms of the franchise(s) the companies operate. If the government saw fit to require trains to be run on specific days such as Christmas Day / Boxing Day, they could make it a condition of the franchise, surely ??
To admins Im sorry didnt realise this question had already been done so many times.
I am working tonight at 23.00 to prepare the service for tomorrow. I don't particularly want to but I have to as no one else wants to do it and it falls on my shift in. People who say we are providing a service so we should work when the public want to travel all I will say to you is when are rail staff supposed to have time with the family as they are normally working when we are off! Xmas and boxing day are the only times I can normally guarantee seeing my whole family at the same day and I regard them as a sacred day to be with your family and hate the commercialisation of them. I know NR track workers are working over the period but unfortunately the public normally demand a service from very early in the morning to late at night and complain like fury about bus replacements so there is no other time to do major engineering works.
I am working tonight at 23.00 to prepare the service for tomorrow. I don't particularly want to but I have to as no one else wants to do it and it falls on my shift in. People who say we are providing a service so we should work when the public want to travel all I will say to you is when are rail staff supposed to have time with the family as they are normally working when we are off! Xmas and boxing day are the only times I can normally guarantee seeing my whole family at the same day and I regard them as a sacred day to be with your family and hate the commercialisation of them. I know NR track workers are working over the period but unfortunately the public normally demand a service from very early in the morning to late at night and complain like fury about bus replacements so there is no other time to do major engineering works.
noddingdonkey
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On the topic of contracts, if I buy a 7 day season ticket on the 22nd December, why isn't that charged at 5/7 of the usual price?
In the absence of such an arrangement isn't that effectively a contract for the supply of a train service (or replacement bus) for seven days, which includes the 25th and 26th December?
In the absence of such an arrangement isn't that effectively a contract for the supply of a train service (or replacement bus) for seven days, which includes the 25th and 26th December?
Firstly I honestly don't know the answer to this but can you buy a ticket for or including the 25 and 26 if no service runs?
And secondly, if you can, should you not have checked yourself beforehand that the trains will be running and if you still choose to buy a weekly ticket for this week then surely you only have yourself to blame?
And secondly, if you can, should you not have checked yourself beforehand that the trains will be running and if you still choose to buy a weekly ticket for this week then surely you only have yourself to blame?
Captain Chaos
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I have heard of stories of people being sold tickets for the 26th. Not sure how true they are though.
moggie
Member
This whole thread will be an irrelevance in a few years time anyway. The state of high st retailing and the innevitable march of internet shopping the provision of rail services for the hardy few is never going to stack up economically.
Indeed, perhaps there's an argument nowdays for those services that do run to serve by and large the needs of the current hoards of shopaholics that subsides necessary to operate those services should take a contribution from the retailers themselves.
That would put an end to it!
Indeed, perhaps there's an argument nowdays for those services that do run to serve by and large the needs of the current hoards of shopaholics that subsides necessary to operate those services should take a contribution from the retailers themselves.
That would put an end to it!
I have thought about it and this is what folks need to know, I and most railway workers have to use 2 days of their annual leave allocation if they are rostered to woek on Christmas day and boxing day so to be fair railway workers are in fact loosing 2 days annual leave so for those who say it is down to the wrkers you will probably find it is down to the TOC's and unions rather than the workers themselves however it is nice to be able to spend at least one day a year when you can have a family reunion as it is nigh impossible any other time!
+1
Also echo other comments about actual usage. Those who are addicted to Sales usually take the car because of the 27 bags they bring back. I would not be amused if I reserved a seat on a train to find some idiot has filled it with shopping!
My employment contract states that I could be required to work for 363 days of the year, guess which 2 days I am not contracted to work?
It would cost them loads to buy that contract off me!
andrew bell
Member
It is a pure catch 22 situation, people who work on the railways wanting Christmas day and Boxing day off and people who don't work on the railways saying its unfair that no trains run. I don't work on the railways but I can see both sides to the arguement. My personal view is all depots should have a list of all people who WANTS to work Boxing day, see how many there are and discuss with other depots in the area/company/line to see if there are enough people to work an hourly service, starting at 9am and finishing at 9pm roughly.
I don't know how hard that will be, perhaps someone else with more knowledge can divulge that information, if they want to.
I don't know how hard that will be, perhaps someone else with more knowledge can divulge that information, if they want to.
the Rail staff (well most of them) are not contracted to work on these 2 days, its the TOCs that dont want to run the service, its just easier to blame the nasty, militant staff than look at the real reasons.
The train running needs to be submitted as minimum of 12 weeks in advance, NR do a lot of big jobs over the holiday and so not all lines will be available either, it wouldnt be impossible but would be a logistical nightmare.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
With regard to your point, for those retail premises that do in fact open on Boxing Day in England and Wales, do they receive a lower patronage than on normal opening days per hour in the times that they are open? Greed, to use your wording, needs patronage to fulfill it to the aspirations of the retailers.
I am thankful to MattE2010 for highlighting the thread matter that does exist in Glasgow.
krus_aragon
Established Member
It depends on the retailer. Big-ticket retailers (fashion, technology, furniture) tend to see a significant patronage. I've known other shops to see very little trade, and not even cover the day's wage costs in takings. The argument for opening such a shop is typically "We need to have staff in to prepare the sale, so they may as well open the doors".
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Just looking at one sporting event, viz. Manchester United v. Newcastle United that still attracted an attendance of over 75,000 on Boxing Day, shows that there are always other means of transportation which have indeed been used to attend such sporting events on Boxing Day.
It would be interesting to note the total number who attended all types of sporting events on Boxing Day, who did not let the lack of a rail service detract from their ability to travel to such events.
It would be interesting to note the total number who attended all types of sporting events on Boxing Day, who did not let the lack of a rail service detract from their ability to travel to such events.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
well if you have a boxing day away game you either drive, get the supporters (or other) club coach or dont go!
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
Speaking as an employee of the railways, I have always found it odd there is no service on Boxing Day. It's a huge day in the sporting calendar and one of the biggest shopping days of the year, yet the train service just isnt there.
While I don't think there is a great need to open all the lines (the comment about not running empty Pacers around rural Lincolnshire is entirely valid) and there certainly is no need to start the service at 05:30 like on a normal day, it's clear there is a demand for something. I'll certainly take the free day off while it lasts and I suspect if services are introduced then they will probably be skeleton services run on overtime for the initial couple of years because there is no way the unions will allow Boxing Day working to simply be imposed in the roster.
While I don't think there is a great need to open all the lines (the comment about not running empty Pacers around rural Lincolnshire is entirely valid) and there certainly is no need to start the service at 05:30 like on a normal day, it's clear there is a demand for something. I'll certainly take the free day off while it lasts and I suspect if services are introduced then they will probably be skeleton services run on overtime for the initial couple of years because there is no way the unions will allow Boxing Day working to simply be imposed in the roster.
nedchester
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It amuses me that people talk about there being no need for the shops to be open on Boxing Day,but the fact is they are!
There is a demand for travel on Boxing Day and the railway should provide for this.
This could be done by means of asking for volunteers (at the good rate of pay) or by providing day(s) in lieu.
The argument about engineering work is one I am rather sceptical about as well as how do the railways on the continent manage to run a 365 day service? I also think there is more of a demand for later services especially out of major conurbations as the UK moves to a more 24 hour society.
The railways have started to move a little bit in the right direction with better Sunday services but Sundays for many TOC's still rely on volunteers which is something that needs to change.
There is a demand for travel on Boxing Day and the railway should provide for this.
This could be done by means of asking for volunteers (at the good rate of pay) or by providing day(s) in lieu.
The argument about engineering work is one I am rather sceptical about as well as how do the railways on the continent manage to run a 365 day service? I also think there is more of a demand for later services especially out of major conurbations as the UK moves to a more 24 hour society.
The railways have started to move a little bit in the right direction with better Sunday services but Sundays for many TOC's still rely on volunteers which is something that needs to change.
theblackwatch
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Rather than being concerned about Boxing Day, I'm more shocked that today (which is a normal working day, ie not a public holiday of any sort) many early morning services are not running - for example from my local station, the first train to York will not arrive there until 08.30 instead of 07.21 on weekdays normally. I suspect a few people will be late for work as a result!
There seems to be rather too much messing around with first and last trains willy-nilly. Similar to replacing the last train of the night with a bus, and because it's a "planned" replacement, there's no assistance when you miss a connecting train.
The published timetable isn't worth the paper its written on.
The published timetable isn't worth the paper its written on.
And this simply reinforces the idea that rail travel is unnecessary, that the road provides a better alternative. The take-it-or-leave-it approach of the rail industry can be breathtaking at times. At the opposite extreme, what about the shop-window opportunity of "Free rail travel for all" on Boxing Day?
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
My wife , being a safety critical NHS professional , worked Boxing Day and got normal Sunday rate and no extra time off. Had she worked Xmas Day (as she did last year) , the pay level is the same.
She will work NY Day , and be on call overnight for normal "on call" enhancement - which is around an hours pay.
I don't see what that has to do with this thread? My wife gets Boxing Day and New Year's Day off work. Just incase you are interested?!
Ill day it again , the reason for no Boxing Day service has nothing to do with paying drivers!
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
Don King famously said you dont get what you deserve in life, you get what you negotiate.
AlexS
Established Member
Because I was working on Christmas Eve (on the railway :P) and didn't fancy a 60 mile drive back home to my parent's after my shift that evening, so I did it in the morning instead and found the roads to be dead :P
Whilst its technically a working day it is a fact that far fewer people will actually be at work. I know many people will be working today and tomorrow but the schools, unis etc are all closed, many businesses have reduced hours, a number of companies only have a skeleton staff in-I know lots of people who are only working one of the two days (part timers-I'm working both and not getting any more than flat rate for them. (And that was a joke before anyone starts up again with the overpaid driver argument!))
Plus many people will have taken holiday/leave between Xmas and new year.
EM2
Established Member
But the shops have decided they will open, and now expect everyone to fall in line with them. Why should we, just because they want to feed their ever-insatiable greed for profits. Remember when they were called January sales? But they've been started earlier and earlier, because there's more chance for them to coin it in.
Sport has managed perfectly well with no Boxing Day trains since before I was born, so that's not really an excuse either.
Should all the buses run on Boxing Day too? No (or very few) buses yesterday in Brighton, Maidstone, Slough, Nottingham, Norwich, Cambridge, Chester, Swansea, Bristol, Milton Keynes, Stoke and Middlesbrough and they're just the ones I know!
nedchester
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We all managed perfectly well without mobile phones, laptops, electricity, cars, gas for many years but that doesn't mean it shouldn't change!! Time for some to get their heads out of the sand!
EM2
Established Member
If it carries on this way, then in twenty years there'll be 24-hour shopping on Christmas Day. This has all been driven by retailers.
What's so wrong in just wanting a couple of days of peace and quiet?
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