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Boxing Day Services

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Philip Phlopp

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Heads to unit with cuppa, pan up..:razz:

That's until the air fairy pays your unit a visit and steals all the air, though waiting for an auxiliary compressor to produce a few PSI of pressure to get the pan raised is infinitely preferable to all the faffing about with engine pre-heating, shore supplies and minimum engine temperatures.
 
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RailUK Forums

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Should point out that historically trains used to run on Cristmas Day and Boxing Day.

If the BR levels of pay (with allowances) remained to this day rather than the payment levels of today how many of you would be working with the large amounts of overtime payments etc that no doubt would be on offer?
 

Philip Phlopp

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Should point out that historically trains used to run on Cristmas Day and Boxing Day.

If the BR levels of pay (with allowances) remained to this day rather than the payment levels of today how many of you would be working with the large amounts of overtime payments etc that no doubt would be on offer?

What BR did or didn't do is a rose tinted irrelevance.

BR could get away running trains in the days of yore because:

1. They ran far fewer trains, so it was easier for us to trample around the cess and four foot, digging holes, erecting masts, putting in drains or running signalling cabling without being bowled over by a train every 15 minutes. We forget how few services BR used to run - on some routes it was one service an hour, one every two hours, which was probably one service every four hours during Christmas. We would be running services every 15 minutes, 30 minutes max today on those routes, I reckon.

2. They could divert trains, with freight (no heat) locomotives able to drag the leccys away from the WCML when it was dug up. Now, there's few paths on diversionary routes and running stock with no ETS is unsafe as it's all power doors, power toilets and power safety kit. If you could divert it with the two dozen Thunderbirds, you need route knowledge, which doesn't exist because for the other 360 days a year, you ain't diverting anything over other routes as there's no paths.

We could kill the OLE for maintenance and stick a diesel on the front of a leccy service and drag it through the dead section with no trouble. You're not doing that with a dozen Virgin and LM services an hour, you could with a couple of BR services.

3. We didn't care about H&S. In combo with 1&2 - less trains, diversions etc, we were quite happy to have guys up ladders installing OLE with trains passing underneath (albeit cautioned past). We had cherry pickers from roads and sidings to get guys up masts fitting OLE. You could install a mast base between a train, not because mast installation was super quick, but because trains were so infrequent. Three or four hours to dig holes, do shuttering, mix and pour concrete, load spoil into wagon, shift to next site, all without having to worry about a train for ages.

It was even possible to unroll fully prepared headspans between trains, get them up the masts, tensioned and pretty much ready for contact and catenary wires between trains.

It really was very, very different back in the days of BR. Trying to do maintenance AND run trains today, with the work we need to do, H&S requirements, volume of maintenance required etc, is virtually impossible. 54 hour possessions are needed sometime, people know the railway can't do much for a handful of days a year, I think in light of what needs done and how long it takes to do it, shutting down now is the most sensible of ideas.
 

gtr driver

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Should cars be allowed to run on Christmas Day and Boxing Day? If public transport staff shouldn't work on Christmas Day and Boxing Day then you should ban private car use, because that requires hospital staff and police to work on Christmas Day to deal with accidents. Breakdown services still operate and even some petrol stations are open. I normally leave the country for Christmas to avoid this farce.

Sunday, Christmas Day and Boxing Day have been kept special outside the UK. Outside the UK, public holiday service is required to help keep these days special, as it enables people to meet other people and take part in social activities on these days.

I think you'll find emergency services are needed on Boxing Day because emergencies can happen all year round. There is no need to go shopping on Boxing Day. And hospital inpatients don't just get better to give hospital staff two days off. The railway is not an emergency service or part of the armed forces.

So you leave the country because other countries like to keep Christmas special by making transport workers work at Christmas? So it's special for everyone except them, presumably?

Maybe some of you could take a step back and think about what is it like for shift workers. Your job means your entire life is out of step with all your friends and relatives. I cannot book Sundays or Bank Holidays off, I just have to request them off and hope someone else wants them or find someone else to do them. Only a few people can take leave each day. So all the Fridays and Saturdays disappear pretty quick. Days like Christmas Eve get booked up a year in advance, people are literally on the phone at a minute past midnight on 24 Dec to get the following year's Christmas Eve off.

Every time you have a wedding, a funeral, a social occasion, a hospital appointment, parents evening, school play, you pray you're on the right shift that week or you're on rest day, because you know it's nigh on impossible to be free much of the time. Or in the unlikely event of getting a Saturday for someone's wedding, you find they can't cover the Sunday, and it's an early. So no letting your hair down, no staying over at the venue, and a very annoyed family. Forget being part of anything that meets at regular times, like a football team, evening class, running club, TA, because you struggle to attend as much you need to. Going on holiday with you family? Make sure you come back a day early and straight off the plane cos you couldn't get the second Saturday of the two weeks off.

Is it really so much to ask that some of us get just 2 guaranteed days off out of 365, at the time of the biggest public holiday in the UK, 2 days when we can say to our families, yes, I'm definitely off that day, I haven't got to swap or hope I'm on the list to get this one off, or hope there's still a free leave slot on my shift that day? Just 2 days when you're not getting up or coming home at 3am? Just to feel normal for a brief interlude?
 

radamfi

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I think you'll find emergency services are needed on Boxing Day because emergencies can happen all year round. There is no need to go shopping on Boxing Day. And hospital inpatients don't just get better to give hospital staff two days off. The railway is not an emergency service or part of the armed forces.

Shopping is only one reason to travel. Sunday service existed before Sunday shopping was legal and Sunday service exists in mainland Europe where shops don't open on Sunday as much as the UK. If shopping was the main reason to travel then we don't need trains on Easter Sunday when most shops aren't allowed to open. There would be no need for evening services because most shops aren't open in the evening. London buses don't need to run 24/7 because most shops aren't open in the middle of the night. Maybe there should be no night buses or trains because the hours are anti-social and therefore unfair on transport workers.

You could argue that emergency services shouldn't attend car accidents on Christmas Day/Boxing Day because car travel on Christmas Day/Boxing Day isn't "essential", and certainly there's no excuse for breakdown services to work or petrol stations to open. We are supposed to be encouraging alternatives to car use. Indeed, that's the main reason why we have trains, or at least it should be.

People travel on Christmas Day/Boxing Day primarily to visit friends and family.
 
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455driver

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Shopping is only one reason to travel. Sunday service existed before Sunday shopping was legal and Sunday service exists in mainland Europe where shops don't open on Sunday as much as the UK. If shopping was the main reason to travel then we don't need trains on Easter Sunday when most shops aren't allowed to open. There would be no need for evening services because most shops aren't open in the evening. London buses don't need to run 24/7 because most shops aren't open in the middle of the night. Maybe there should be no night buses or trains because the hours are anti-social and therefore unfair on transport workers.

You could argue that emergency services shouldn't attend car accidents on Christmas Day/Boxing Day because car travel on Christmas Day/Boxing Day isn't "essential", and certainly there's no excuse for breakdown services to work or petrol stations to open. We are supposed to be encouraging alternatives to car use. Indeed, that's the main reason why we have trains, or at least it should be.

People travel on Christmas Day/Boxing Day primarily to visit friends and family.
Nice speech but most people who want trains on Boxing day want them so they can go shopping, very few of them need to travel that day!
 

radamfi

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Nice speech but most people who want trains on Boxing day want them so they can go shopping, very few of them need to travel that day!

What about the millions of people travelling on Christmas Day? Are they going shopping? Are their trips "essential"?
 

HowardGWR

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I couldn't make out what happened on Chiltern. Yesterday RTT said it was getting no data and then times started to appear but in light colour, not heavy type. If you look today (at the 26th) you will see what I mean. Just specify Marylebone 0600 to 2000 (say).

Anyone know what they actually ran yesterday in the event?.
 

Pakenhamtrain

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In Australia most train services run to a weekend or Sunday timetable on Christmas day. On Boxing day it's a Weekend or Saturday timetable.

In Melbourne where I am a Sunday timetable means trains about every 20 minutes on the suburban rail system. About every 10-15 minutes for trams and about every hour for buses that do run. On the regional V/Line trains it's about every hour on the "Interurban" routes and about 2 trains each way on the "Intercity" trains.

Track maintenance and train maintenance only have emergency crews in case of any incident.

To top it off all services on Christmas day are free of charge. Been that way for a few years.
It's very popular too. Quite a few V/Line trains have extra units or extra car sets added. I headed into the city and there was quite a few people despite nothing being open and it was a 35 degree day. V/line trains had to slow down yet get a decent crowd.

On Boxing day. Well you have potentially 100,000 people heading to the MCG for the cricket and easily just as many heading to the city for the Boxing Day sales.

I can't see why on Christmas day The ECML and WCML don't get a service at a minimum. I would imagine it would be well used.
 

radamfi

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I can't see why on Christmas day The ECML and WCML don't get a service at a minimum. I would imagine it would be well used.

Given the amount of traffic on the roads there is certainly no argument about whether services would be used. It is essentially about operational convenience and staff opposition.
 

SPADTrap

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Given the amount of traffic on the roads there is certainly no argument about whether services would be used. It is essentially about operational convenience and staff opposition.

This is meaningless really, take a look at the roads on normal business days and you'll see lots of traffic!

More operational possibility given the works that need doing over the Christmas period.
 
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radamfi

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This is meaningless really, take a look at the roads on normal business days and you'll see lots of traffic!

More operational possibility given the works that need doing over the Christmas period.

There's a lot more traffic during the day on Christmas Day compared to weekday evenings and early Sunday mornings, when trains run.

Are there any lines that didn't have engineering work on Christmas Day and Boxing Day?
 

Andrew1395

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I would like boxing day services as I always have to collect and return elderly relatives on Christmas and Boxing Day. It's an absolute liberty that some people want Boxing Day off to go to football, visit relatives go shopping, while others have to go to work in public utilities, hospitals, sports centres, pubs, restaurants, cinemas, etc. Boxing Day services in urban areas like Birmingham, Manchester, London outer area, etc will come about. They only disappeared as a response to the huge public sector cuts. Long distance travellers between say Glasgow and Birmingham could always fly.
 

SPADTrap

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I would like boxing day services as I always have to collect and return elderly relatives on Christmas and Boxing Day. It's an absolute liberty that some people want Boxing Day off to go to football, visit relatives go shopping, while others have to go to work in public utilities, hospitals, sports centres, pubs, restaurants, cinemas, etc. Boxing Day services in urban areas like Birmingham, Manchester, London outer area, etc will come about. They only disappeared as a response to the huge public sector cuts. Long distance travellers between say Glasgow and Birmingham could always fly.

Why can't you do it the next day?
 

ComUtoR

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Why can't you do it the next day?

I don't think visiting relatives would last another day. <D

However; it is a personal choice. There isn't any automatic right to services and neither should staff be forced to work outside of contractual obligations. It does work both ways. If you wish to travel on those days feel free to use the services that ARE provided. We shouldn't berate those who do wish to travel for whatever reason on boxing day and neither should we berate the TOC's for not providing a service.

We have run boxing day services in the past and they have been like ghost trains. It's the same with New Year services. We have run them throughout the night but again they are very much empty services. The outrage when services are cancelled is palpable but running empty services is a total waste of resources, time, effort and money.
 

SPADTrap

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I don't think visiting relatives would last another day. <D

However; it is a personal choice. There isn't any automatic right to services and neither should staff be forced to work outside of contractual obligations. It does work both ways. If you wish to travel on those days feel free to use the services that ARE provided. We shouldn't berate those who do wish to travel for whatever reason on boxing day and neither should we berate the TOC's for not providing a service.

We have run boxing day services in the past and they have been like ghost trains. It's the same with New Year services. We have run them throughout the night but again they are very much empty services. The outrage when services are cancelled is palpable but running empty services is a total waste of resources, time, effort and money.

Popular services that are in demand staffed by volunteers on whatever it takes to temp those who wish to work it to do so, as long as that isn't the beginning of it becoming a contractual obligation!

Oh and relatives; we're bringing people together for longer! <D
 
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bb21

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Boxing Day is now finished. Thread is therefore locked for another year.

Make sure you start nice and early next year if you missed the boat this time.
 
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