Boxing Day Services

[gtr driver]

Will the 442's operate these services or will they be 377s pretending to be GatEx trains?

They will be 377s because most Southern drivers don't sign 442s and even assumed they're cleared for the alternative routes to Gatwick, Gatwick drivers don't sign those routes. Or 377s come to that.

 

[southern442]

They will be 377s because most Southern drivers don't sign 442s and even assumed they're cleared for the alternative routes to Gatwick, Gatwick drivers don't sign those routes. Or 377s come to that.

Do GatEx drivers not sign 377's? I would've thought that they should.
But yeah it would make sense that Gatwick drivers don't sign the Oxted line, and I doubt they imagined that they would theoretically have to travel along the Oxted route when they were designing the 442's

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Chiltern interested in bums on seats. This service is self contained to Chiltern. Hence why no Marylebone - Amersham - Aylesbury. Hence why not as far as Banbury.

That's as much about signal boxes as anything. Marylebone - Oxford Parkway is all under one signal box (Marylebone) but going to Aylesbury via Amersham or to Banbury would involve opening other boxes up which may be a problem logistically.

 

[gtr driver]

Do GatEx drivers not sign 377's? I would've thought that they should.
But yeah it would make sense that Gatwick drivers don't sign the Oxted line, and I doubt they imagined that they would theoretically have to travel along the Oxted route when they were designing the 442's

There's no reason for them to sign 377s because 377s are not used on Gatwick Express.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I appreciate it's historic why so few trains run on Boxing Day, and the two day closure gives some useful engineering blockades. But given how many shops, etc, are now open I wonder why a limited service isn't offered on more lines. I'm sure there would be more demand for Boxing Day than Easter Sunday (which has a normal Sunday service but nothing is open).

You volunteering? I'm not.

There are notices in the crew rooms & ORMs offices, asking for volunteers, but they don't say for what or whether you're going to get paid or at what rate or if you get a day in lieu.

I guess there'll be some mugs, but I won't be one of them.

 

[tsr]

There's no reason for them to sign 377s because 377s are not used on Gatwick Express.

377s and 455s are used in emergencies for GatEx duties if 442s are unavailable. This is partly why Selhurst Link 1 drivers and a few others sign all 3 types. Particularly in peak times, if they're short of 442s, they will and have rostered the drivers so that they can work a GatEx formed of any [relatively reasonably expected] stock.

On the other hand, as the vast majority of services are worked by 442s, GatEx-specific depots still have plenty of work with those, so of course they will not necessarily need to sign other traction. Where their knowledge does come in handy is with the diversions across South London.

If you have certain Norwood drivers they could even do the GatEx with a 171, but you'd need to be desperate due to the restrictions at Victoria.

 

[southern442]

377s and 455s are used in emergencies for GatEx duties if 442s are unavailable. This is partly why Selhurst Link 1 drivers and a few others sign all 3 types. Particularly in peak times, if they're short of 442s, they will and have rostered the drivers so that they can work a GatEx formed of any [relatively reasonably expected] stock.

On the other hand, as the vast majority of services are worked by 442s, GatEx-specific depots still have plenty of work with those, so of course they will not necessarily need to sign other traction. Where there knowledge does come in handy is with the diversions across South London.

If you have certain Norwood drivers they could even do the GatEx with a 171, but you'd need to be desperate due to the restrictions at Victoria.

I do remember the 455's occasionally were used for GatEx if the 460's were unavailable. I never understood why they were used and not other units like 319's or 377's, but it always interested be when I would see 455's rushing past, they can get up to quite a speed.

 

[ungreat]

You volunteering? I'm not.

There are notices in the crew rooms & ORMs offices, asking for volunteers, but they don't say for what or whether you're going to get paid or at what rate or if you get a day in lieu.

I guess there'll be some mugs, but I won't be one of them.

Amen to that Brother!I'm now off till the 29th and will NOT be volunteering for any shifts

 

[Antman]

I appreciate it's historic why so few trains run on Boxing Day, and the two day closure gives some useful engineering blockades. But given how many shops, etc, are now open I wonder why a limited service isn't offered on more lines. I'm sure there would be more demand for Boxing Day than Easter Sunday (which has a normal Sunday service but nothing is open).

I expect there will be a gradual move towards something approaching a full service on boxing day, engineering work permitting and on a similar theme I wonder how much longer TfL will get away with not running buses in London on Christmas Day.

 

[sng7]

I would be surprised if it wasn't considered at some level, but given that Scotrail have made no announcement to date I'd be highly surprised if services will run over the Forth Bridge on Boxing Day this year. You'd need to have staff agree to lose one of only two guaranteed rest days at quite short notice, at a time when they'll want to be with family (and may well have plans). I suspect that unions would be wary of setting a precedent for boxing day service in years ahead. They'd want very stringent conditions before agreeing.

Given enough money and time, I'm sure it would have been possible. But the negotiations would have been so complex that wasn't ever likely to happen this year.

SPT services have historically run on Boxing Day for quite some time now. Interestingly, as part of this, Bathgate (not in the SPT area) gets a service to Glasgow (a relatively new destination for the town), but not to Edinburgh. This is presumably because it's the best way of serving Drumgelloch and Caldercruix (both within the SPT area).

Now the forth bridge is reopen it wouldn't happen anyway but in any case i believe there is a lot of engineering renewal work at haymarket over the festive period and new year which would prevent a service being run anyway

 

[crispy1978]

There's a few non-passenger services scheduled for the 26th. Is it likely any, many or most will run?

 

[33056]

There's a few non-passenger services scheduled for the 26th. Is it likely any, many or most will run?

If they are STP engineers trains then, probably, yes - any WTT trains should have been cancelled off in the system though there are sometimes one or two that escape the net.

 

[Nicholas43]

Chiltern, and NRE, are under the mistaken impression that Chiltern's rail replacement buses Oxford - Oxford Parkway will be running on 26 December. (The ordinary city bus #2 City Centre - Water Eaton - Kidlington will be running.)

 

[LAX54]

I don't think this is the case. According to the Government website https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays Monday 27th is the Bank Holiday, not Sat 26th. It's not an extra bank holiday on the Monday. In 2016 the Tuesday after Christmas is the Bank Holiday, not Christmas Day.

We don't get extra bank holidays in any year when a Bank Holuday falls at a weekend.

Well sort of ! Many people do not work Saturday and Sunday anyway, so if there were no substuite bank hols, they would lose out, thus there are 'extra' bank hols for when Christmas falls on a weekend.

so 2016 Christmas Day is a Sunday, but for Bank Hol purposes moved to the Tuesday ( Boxing Day is the Monday), so those that are paid extra for working Christmas and / or Bank Hols would get extra pay or time off.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's as much about signal boxes as anything. Marylebone - Oxford Parkway is all under one signal box (Marylebone) but going to Aylesbury via Amersham or to Banbury would involve opening other boxes up which may be a problem logistically.

Most, if not all IECC's and PSB's tend to be open 365 days a year now, mainly for engineering at Christmas, but as they are open, and as longas there are no other boxes needed that are closed, then in theory a TOC could run a service on the 26th if they wanted, but I assume they dont want to pay the extra to staff to come in !

 

[455driver]

Most, if not all IECC's and PSB's tend to be open 365 days a year now, mainly for engineering at Christmas, but as they are open, and as long as there are no other boxes needed that are closed, then in theory a TOC could run a service on the 26th if they wanted, but I assume they dont want to pay the extra to staff to come in and cart fresh air around for most of the day as all the people who were screaming about wanting trains to run decided to stay home with the family and the few that did catch the train didn't cover the costs!

Edited for accuracy!

 

[ainsworth74]

Edited for accuracy!

Aren't the services that do run usually well used?

 

[LAX54]

Edited for accuracy!

I recall working on the SR in the 70's and 80's with a Boxing day service, was not heavily used, but it was used, and in those days, there were no shops open, these days the 26th is almost a normal day shopping wise, of course now all the roads are clogged as there is no alternative transport !
BUT if you ran trains, when would the really big engineering jobs take place?

 

[ainsworth74]

BUT if you ran trains, when would the really big engineering jobs take place?

I think in any universe where there is an attempt to provide a decent Boxing Day service then engineering work has to take priority. If Network Rail need to Christmas Day and Boxing Day to work on a piece of railway they should get it and the passenger service has to take a back seat.

 

[Starmill]

I think as far as Boxing Day is concerned, if there are trains to places where there are shops, people will use them. Now let me see, there are lots and lots of shops in London, quite a few in Bicester and in Oxford...

 

[313103]

I expect there will be a gradual move towards something approaching a full service on boxing day, engineering work permitting and on a similar theme I wonder how much longer TfL will get away with not running buses in London on Christmas Day.

I cant understand why the city of London gets away with shutting down every Friday and Saturday, every bank holiday and every christmas.

Amazing though that those who propose that that this and that should happen over christmas, easter etc are probably those that dont want to work over those same said period. Not accusing this particular individual but noticing a general observation.

I think to stop this them and us working issues, bank holidays should be scrapped and treated as a normal day.

 

[CromptonLad]

Careful about setting precedents - once set, the inches given will be stretched further and further until some smart alec thinks Xmas Day itself is a good idea too. And then it'll start as a suggestion, then a call for volunteers, and then the following year it'll be 'shift day tough' for a core few, spreading to all staff.

Seems the road industry have already done this judging from advertising.

 

[455driver]

Careful about setting precedents - once set, the inches given will be stretched further and further until some smart alec thinks Xmas Day itself is a good idea too. And then it'll start as a suggestion, then a call for volunteers, and then the following year it'll be 'shift day tough' for a core few, spreading to all staff.

Seems the road industry have already done this judging from advertising.

What, just like what happened with the all the other bank holidays and the Sunday trading laws?
Surely it couldn't happen again could it?

 

[wensley]

If they are STP engineers trains then, probably, yes - any WTT trains should have been cancelled off in the system though there are sometimes one or two that escape the net.

Tyne Dock biomass is running to Drax throughout the 26 Dec.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Merseyrail are running trains between 9am & 6.30pm, however only a few stations are open.

This has been very well advertised so i got a good feeling it will really take of!

One of the Northern Guards mentioned to me that Boxing Day Services are in the Arriva franchise, Anyone able to confirm?

 

[Starmill]

They're mentioned in a "must work towards" sense, they're not required.

 

[al78]

I think to stop this them and us working issues, bank holidays should be scrapped and treated as a normal day.

http://idioms.in/dog-in-the-manger/

I fail to see why just because some people voluntarily apply for, and take on a job which involves bank holiday working, and for which this is known at the application process, that this means no-one else should have a (very) occasional bank holiday. If someone is that bitter that they resent someone else having a day off that they personally can't take advantage of, then find another job or stop whinging.

 

[313103]

http://idioms.in/dog-in-the-manger/

I fail to see why just because some people voluntarily apply for, and take on a job which involves bank holiday working, and for which this is known at the application process, that this means no-one else should have a (very) occasional bank holiday. If someone is that bitter that they resent someone else having a day off that they personally can't take advantage of, then find another job or stop whinging.

First off i dont resent anyone having there entitled leave.

What i resent is that people on here who are not employed on the railway, expect railway employees to work throughout Christmas and then say the emotive words 'Nurses do and they dont get no where as much pay as a railway employee'.

When i started on the railways (30 June 1980), railway services did not run on either Christmas day and Boxing day, in my current area of employment they still dont. So what you are saying is that if they do i should get out? One obviously doesnt know how bad employment is in this country.

For what justification should bus companies run normal services over the christmas period, the same could be said about people wanting a normal service to exist on the railways over the same period when clearly there is no need for it. First Great Western ran a normal weekday service from my local station on Christmas eve morning and you could of replaced the 8 car hst sets with maybe a class 150 or at a push a class 158 that was how many people were travelling by train.

 

[ainsworth74]

How well used are the services that do run on Boxing Day?

 

[Y961 XBU]

I eill let you know how well Merseyrail does

 

[Bevan Price]

In the 1960s, there were even relief trains run on Boxing Day, after a late start to services. Back then, most people had a lot less annual leave (15 days was typical- some got only 12 or 13 days). Those like me caught the last train north out of London Euston on Christmas Eve, and returned south on the late afternoon departure from Liverpool on Boxing Day, because we had to work on 27 December (in years when it was not a Bank Holiday) - and trains were well loaded.

It was not until the 1970s / 1980s that lots of people got enough annual leave to stay off work between Christmas & New Year - eventually a lot of businesses (other than shops, etc.) decided that it was not worth opening when so few staff wanted to work over this period.