Boundary Zone to ..

[fulshaw]

Hi

I travel around London on an annual Zones 1-4 Oyster card fare. Quite often I travel to Oxford or Birmingham and ask for a Boundary zone 4 to x - why should I pay for that portion of my journey twice?

Most of the time the clerks understand this - some, sadly, don't, but does anyone know if you can buy one of these boundary zone tickets from ticket machines? I haven't found one that sells them yet and it's such a pain to have to queue up for 10 minutes at stations like Waterloo.

If not, is there a good reason as to why not?

 

[island]

Unfortunately the boundary zone tickets are not available from ticket machines or online. I can only assume it is done to prevent "gapping", i.e. people paying for the start and end of their journeys but not the middle bit.

You cannot get a boundary zone ticket for destinations outside the Network area (so Birmingham isn't a valid destination). But for destinations within the area, if the clerk has a problem, ask them to enter 0043 into their system, which will resolve to Boundary Zone 4.
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Of course it is possible to buy a ticket from the last named station that your travelcard is valid to, but in this case it's not useful as a ticket from Kenton costs the same as from London Terminals, and gives you the risk of getting into an argument with a Virgin ticket examiner who says Oyster cards aren't valid on his train.

 

[fulshaw]

Thanks. I usually buy those £11.50 Advance fares on Virgin but sometimes I ahve to travel the day before at short notice. So technically from what you say if I bought an Advance from a Virgin ticket office I can still ask them to sell me a boundary zone 4 to Manchester. Is that correct?? What would the saving be from boundary zone 4? i.e. is it worth the hassle.

How would Virgin staff check anyway when I walk down the concourse at Euston? They don't carry Oyster readers as some FCC staff do though I can present them with my Gold Card. I'm intrigued now...

 

[yorkie]

I can still ask them to sell me a boundary zone 4 to Manchester. Is that correct??

No. You can only get BZx tickets to stations in the 'Network' area (former NSE area). There might possibly be one or two exceptions. Certainly you won't get such tickets to anywhere near as far as Manchester (or, as stated earlier by island, Birmingham).

For trains to Manchester, if you get a train that calls at Milton Keynes Central [MKC], then a BZ4 to MKC might work, though the savings are minimal compared to a London to MKC ticket routed Virgin Only (in some cases it can be more expensive). You'd need another ticket onwards from MKC.

Your annual season acts as a Gold Card, which gets you 1/3 off tickets in the Network area. So you are able to get tickets to MKC at a 1/3 off discount.

How would Virgin staff check anyway when I walk down the concourse at Euston? They don't carry Oyster readers as some FCC staff do though I can present them with my Gold Card. I'm intrigued now...

That's their problem. Not yours.

 

[fulshaw]

I see.

As to it being their problem - I'm sure it would end up being be mine too, I'm sure!

I've had staff refusing to sell me the tickets I've asked for on this BZ issue - within the correct area to becuase they assume that the next zone starts at the end of the platform. Some of the old hands know and understand - of late, the newbies don't.. are they taught about how this works??

 

[yorkie]

I see.

As to it being their problem - I'm sure it would end up being be mine too, I'm sure!

Then obtain their name and write a complaint. Someone has actually done that, and got support from TfL, the Greater London Assembly Transport Committee, ATOC and (eventually) got complimentary tickets and an apology from Virgin Trains. If Virgin do this again, let us know and we'll make sure they make a suitable apology.

Does anyone know if Michael Saunders, Alan Robey and Sarah Brassington are still working for Virgin? If they are, I am sure they will not make the same mistakes again!

I've had staff refusing to sell me the tickets I've asked for on this BZ issue - within the correct area to becuase they assume that the next zone starts at the end of the platform. Some of the old hands know and understand - of late, the newbies don't.. are they taught about how this works??

Where have you had this problem? What tickets did you ask for?

 

[fulshaw]

It was from Boundary Zone 4 to Bedford.

They refused to sell me from BZ4 and said I had to go from the named station to Bedford even though I have a) purchased this ticket before and b) she got it on her system - then refused to sell it to me. I think this is breaking NRCOC.

Never seen her before - usual staff are very good. Had to explain to her how the boundary system worked and that 200m of track was in zone 4! I know I'm being a pedant but it was a £2 saving and train companies like to quote rules and regs so why no give it back (politley, of course)

Spoke to the train company customer services - the poor chap didn't understand but his supervisor said I was correct and double checked with the people in England. Now sent in my ticket and awaiting a refund.

 

[yorkie]

It was from Boundary Zone 4 to Bedford.

They refused to sell me from BZ4 and said I had to go from the named station to Bedford even though I have a) purchased this ticket before and b) she got it on her system - then refused to sell it to me. I think this is breaking NRCOC.

Never seen her before - usual staff are very good. Had to explain to her how the boundary system worked and that 200m of track was in zone 4! I know I'm being a pedant but it was a £2 saving and train companies like to quote rules and regs so why no give it back (politley, of course)

Spoke to the train company customer services - the poor chap didn't understand but his supervisor said I was correct and double checked with the people in England. Now sent in my ticket and awaiting a refund.

Indeed that person has caused the company they work for (EMT / FCC?) to be in breach of the rules on impartial retailing. Compliance is a franchise commitment for all TOCs so it is a quite serious matter. I am glad that this has been resolved by customer services.

A Zones 1-4 season, plus a Boundary Zone 4 to Bedford, is valid on any service that calls at Bedford by any operator, by any permitted route between London and Bedford, there is no requirement for the train to call at any intermediate station in any zone. If this ticket is requested, as it is considered an extension ticket and not a standalone ticket, the issuer can ask to see the Travelcard. If the Travelcard is held on an Oyster card, and the issuer is unable to read the card due to not having the relevant equipment, then they must assume it is valid and issue the ticket. If they do not, ask to speak to a manager. If still no luck, then make a note of all relevant details and submit a complaint.

Stagecoach companies (EMT/SWT) have a history of not acknowledging the Routeing Guide, and having a dislike for extension tickets or combinations of tickets. I think it's down to the poor attitude of Brian Souter, it appears this attitude filters down to managers and ultimately some of the staff at the sharp end.

 

[fulshaw]

Thanks - good to know that I was correct!

In fairness it wans't Stagecoach and they did resolve it very swiftly.

 

[Clip]

Hi

I travel around London on an annual Zones 1-4 Oyster card fare. Quite often I travel to Oxford or Birmingham and ask for a Boundary zone 4 to x - why should I pay for that portion of my journey twice?

Most of the time the clerks understand this - some, sadly, don't, but does anyone know if you can buy one of these boundary zone tickets from ticket machines? I haven't found one that sells them yet and it's such a pain to have to queue up for 10 minutes at stations like Waterloo.

If not, is there a good reason as to why not?

As has been highlighted earlier on - with the destinations your wanting to go to - especially Birmingham then i cant see you getting much of a discount - especially as chiltern do a return for so cheap .