Boundary Zone routeing

[arb]

I've already gathered, from searching the forum, that:

1) With a zones 1-6 travelcard, and BZ6 to "somewhere" ticket, I can pick any origin station within the zones that is along my journey in order to determine valid routeing of the BZ6 ticket
2) The train doesn't need to call at the boundary station

But ... does the train need to call at the station that I used in order to determine that the routeing of the BZ6 ticket was valid?

The reason for my question is that next weekend I wish to make a circular journey via the following stations:

• Bromley South (BMS)
• Borough Green & Wrotham (BRG) (break journey here)
• Maidstone East (MDE) (break journey here)
• (walk to) Maidstone West (MDW)
• Tonbridge (TON)
• Sevenoaks (SEV) (break journey here)
• London Bridge (LBG)

I'll have a zones 1-6 travelcard, so a quick glance at the maps suggested that a BZ6 to Wateringbury (WTR) ticket was an obvious starting point to see if I could cover all of this on a single BZ6 ticket. (Wateringbury is between Maidstone and Tonbridge for the benefit of those who, like me, have never heard of it before!)

From playing with National Rail Enquiries, I've discovered that the ticket is unquestionably valid to return from WTR via TON+SEV regardless of which station I use to check the routeing. But for the outward leg:

• London Terminals (Victoria) to WTR is not valid via BRG+MDE+MDW
• Bromley South to WTR is not valid via BRG+MDE+MDW

but...

• St Mary Cray to WTR is valid via BRG+MDE+MDW. (Note that St Mary Cray happens to be boundary station)

However, not all trains from BMS to BRG call at St Mary Cray. The fact that St Mary Cray is the boundary station confuses my question slightly - I know that the train doesn't have to call there from the sense of using the combination of a travelcard and BZ6 ticket together. But does it matter from the perspective of determining valid routeing on the BZ6 ticket? If I bought the BZ6-WTR ticket, do I have to travel on a train that calls at St Mary Cray for the routeing via BRG to be valid?

 

[30907]

If the train doesn't need to call at the last station in the Zone, then you're OK surely. You are going to Wateringbury via Maidstone which is a permitted route from SMY, to which point your Travelcard is valid. You are returning to Chelsfield (nominally) via TON which is undoubtedly also permitted.
Or have I missed something?

 

[soil]

With a boundary zone ticket there is no need to call at the boundary station.

 

[arb]

My question is (very subtly) different to that, though.

I know that, assuming a valid routeing on the BZ6 to "somewhere" ticket, there's no need for the train to stop at the boundary station for the combination of a travelcard and BZ6 ticket to be valid. I'm trying to understand how you check for a valid routeing on the BZ6 ticket in the first place.

The generic form of my question would be:

Given a ticket from Boundary Zone 6 to Station 'Z', if the only way that I can find a valid route from within the zones to 'Z' on a particular line is a route from station 'A' to station 'Z', does the train have to call at 'A'?

 

[aye2beeviasea]

I really don't understand what you're asking, or in what way it's different to the question that's already been answered.

If it helps, when I used to commute on a Brighton all zones travelcard I don't think we ever stopped at Coulsdon South.

 

[greatkingrat]

I understand the point you are trying to make. I think the honest answer is I doubt anyone has considered this specific situation and therefore there is no definitive rule one way or the other.

I think in practice, it is very unlikely anyone checking your ticket would make an issue of it though.

Or for an extra 30p you could just get a BZ6 - Maidstone Stns ticket. London - Maidstone is valid via both Borough Green and Tonbridge.

 

[yorkie]

...However, not all trains from BMS to BRG call at St Mary Cray....

Irrelevant. If St Mary Cray is the last station in Zone 6 that you pass through, and if St Mary Cray to the destination printed on your ticket is permitted via the route you wish to take, then the ticket is valid.

The whole point of BZ6 tickets is that the train does not need to call at the boundary station.

(I don't do algebra)

 

[arb]

I really don't understand what you're asking, or in what way it's different to the question that's already been answered.

If it helps, when I used to commute on a Brighton all zones travelcard I don't think we ever stopped at Coulsdon South.

Another example that I've found, with (I think!) slightly simpler routeing:

Consider a Boundary Zone 6 to Watton-at-Stone (WAS) ticket. Hadley Wood (a boundary station) to WAS is valid via Stevenage (SVG). But Kings Cross (KGX) to WAS is not valid via SVG. Can I use a travelcard and BZ6-WAS ticket on a train that runs non-stop between KGX and SVG?

This is subtly different to a Boundary Zone 6 to Hitchin (HIT) ticket. Here, both Hadley Wood (the boundary station) to HIT, and KGX to HIT, are valid via SVG. Therefore, I'd be entirely happy using a travelcard and BZ6-HIT ticket on a train that runs non-stop between KGX and SVG.

Your example using Brighton and Coulsdon South is comparable to my Hitchin and Hadley Wood example, whereas my original question is more like the Watton-at-Stone and Hadley Wood example.

 

[arb]

Or for an extra 30p you could just get a BZ6 - Maidstone Stns ticket. London - Maidstone is valid via both Borough Green and Tonbridge.

I like that solution. And I have a railcard, so it's only 20p extra

 

[yorkie]

Consider a Boundary Zone 6 to Watton-at-Stone (WAS) ticket. Hadley Wood (a boundary station) to WAS is valid via Stevenage (SVG)... .

Yes, Hadley Wood to Watton-at-Stone is valid via Stevenage, so you can do that. The train does not need to call at Hadley Wood.

Note that this isn't likely to last long as they'll probably introduce a higher priced "Any Permitted" fare and re-route the existing fare to "Not via Stevenage".

 

[soil]

My question is (very subtly) different to that, though.

I know that, assuming a valid routeing on the BZ6 to "somewhere" ticket, there's no need for the train to stop at the boundary station for the combination of a travelcard and BZ6 ticket to be valid. I'm trying to understand how you check for a valid routeing on the BZ6 ticket in the first place.

The generic form of my question would be:

Given a ticket from Boundary Zone 6 to Station 'Z', if the only way that I can find a valid route from within the zones to 'Z' on a particular line is a route from station 'A' to station 'Z', does the train have to call at 'A'?

I see what you are saying and the answer is no it does not.

The boundary is conceptual and the ONLY way to calculate valid routes is using the various stations before the zone boundaries.

Therefore there really isn't an issue of a train calling at A.

Thus for instance, if I hold a Freedom Pass, and want to travel on a non-stop train from Waterloo to Woking, then it's trivial that a Boundary Zone 6 - Woking ticket covers me to do that.

The basis for the validity of this ticket is on the basis of permitted routes between Woking and Surbiton, however there is no requirement to stop at Surbiton.

For a ticket like Ascot - Boundary Zone 6, using the boundary station of West Drayton, the permitted routes are based on permitted routes Ascot - West Drayton, i.e. Ascot - Reading - trains towards Paddington.

Here again there is no requirement to stop at West Drayton.