Bought the wrong fare multiple times using wrong railcard

[Kk1990]

Hello everyone i have no idea how this has happened however i have been purchasing tickets of small value eg. cambridge north to cambridge and Falmer to Brighton using the wrong railcard upon checking i found out it to be 16-17 saver. I only poses a network railcard. Today in the morning i was stopped by a ticket inspector and i complied with whatever he asked for and didn’t show any restraint. Upon checking there are quite a few tickets in my Trainline history which i have purchased using the incorrect rail card but these are all small journeys. I am a bit scared because i am not from this country and i don’t know what will
happen. I am happy to pay any fine as this is basically fare evasion which i accept. But just concerned whether matter like these go to court ? Or can be handled out of court as this is not really a first time offence as i have bought multiple tickets in the past. I should have checked first but I didn’t and thats my fault. Can anyone tell me what can i expect ?
Thanks in advance

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum!

Things like this can be dealt with out of court - but that's a decision that the railway gets to make, not you. So what you need to do is to help the railway to decide that settling out of court will be enough to stop you making the same mistake again.

What will probably happen is that the railway will write to you asking for your side of the story.@Hadders may well be along shortly with some very good advice of what you should say, bit essentially you need to explain that you have made a mistake: you now realise that you were wrong: you won't do it again - and ask if the railway will be prepared to settle out of court.

The one point which worries me a little about what you have said is that the journeys you have quoted seem to be basically one stop along the line: this may very well not be what you were doing, but one way that people faredodge is to buy a ticket for one stop when they get on the train (e.g. Cambridge North to Cambridge) and another for one stop when they get off (e.g. Falmer to Brighton) - but no ticket for the bulk of the journey (Cambridge to Falmer). This is commonly known as 'doughnutting' (because like a doughnut it's got a hole in the middle), and the railway really don't like it because it means that quite a lot of the fare hasn't been paid. This may very well not be what you've been doing - but the railway might think that you have. In that case, you'll need to persuade them that you're innocent of that and have an explanation of why you have been buying tickets for short journeys.

 

[Kk1990]

Thank you for your reply i am aware that I have made a mistake by not buying the correct fare but I definitely haven’t been doughnutting at all. I live in cambridge, and this is the first time i booked a ticket from cambridge north to cambridge. I always buy the full fare when travelling long journeys like to brighton and london using my network railcard. My girlfriend lives in falmer so when i visit her i buy the tickets to go to Brighton because there is literally nothing in Falmer. Also the ticket inspector said that he will get my data from Trainline and investigate but he was the ticket inspector for greater anglia. Does he have the power to investigate for other Service providers as the service provided from falmer to brighton is the southern service.
Thank again.

 

[skyhigh]

Does he have the power to investigate for other Service providers as the service provided from falmer to brighton is the southern service.

Yes

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thank you for your reply i am aware that I have made a mistake by not buying the correct fare but I definitely haven’t been doughnutting at all. I live in cambridge, and this is the first time i booked a ticket from cambridge north to cambridge. I always buy the full fare when travelling long journeys like to brighton and london using my network railcard. My girlfriend lives in falmer so when i visit her i buy the tickets to go to Brighton because there is literally nothing in Falmer. Also the ticket inspector said that he will get my data from Trainline and investigate but he was the ticket inspector for greater anglia. Does he have the power to investigate for other Service providers as the service provided from falmer to brighton is the southern service.
Thank again.

That's all good to hear. All you can do now is wait to see what the railway have to say when they write to you. If they only seems to be interested in your journey between Cambridge North and Cambridge then you will want to reply about that. But if they want to start looking at your past travel record, you might then need to explain why you have short journeys which aren't doughnutting.

 

[Kk1990]

That's all good to hear. All you can do now is wait to see what the railway have to say when they write to you. If they only seems to be interested in your journey between Cambridge North and Cambridge then you will want to reply about that. But if they want to start looking at your past travel record, you might then need to explain why you have short journeys which aren't doughnutting.

Thank you very much i will have my fingers crossed. I will post on this thread once i get the letter. Thank you.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Kk1990. Welcome to the forum.

Difficult to say with certainty what will happen, but the investigation team will probably be able to look at your online ticket purchasing history and so it's quite possible that you will be asked to pay them the full undiscounted anytime single fare for each and every time that you've incorrectly claimed a railcard discount, plus a £100 contribution towards administration and investigation expenses. So, could be quite expensive.

But probably better than being taken to court though!

 

[Kk1990]

@Kk1990. Welcome to the forum.

Difficult to say with certainty what will happen, but the investigation team will probably be able to look at your online ticket purchasing history and so it's quite possible that you will be asked to pay them the full undiscounted anytime single fare for each and every time that you've incorrectly claimed a railcard discount, plus a £100 contribution towards administration and investigation expenses. So, could be quite expensive.

But probably better than being taken to court

Thank you for your reply i am aware that I have made a mistake by not buying the correct fare but I definitely haven’t been doughnutting at all. I live in cambridge, and this is the first time i booked a ticket from cambridge north to cambridge. I always buy the full fare when travelling long journeys like to brighton and london using my network railcard. My girlfriend lives in falmer so when i visit her i buy the tickets to go to Brighton because there is literally nothing in Falmer. Also the ticket inspector said that he will get my data from Trainline and investigate but he was the ticket inspector for greater anglia. Does he have the power to investigate for other Service providers as the service provided from falmer to brighton is the southern service.
Thank again.

Hi i was also wondering they must have some sort of technology to check whether i used my phone to tap to enter the station. But how am i able to convince them that when the gates are open which were during my trips to Falmer sometimes. Also i have tickets from Egham to ascot which have been used during the royal ascot event as i worked there bought with 16-17 saver. I am really stressed and anxious. I really don’t want to have anything on my record. I would also like to add that the high value fares in my history have been purchased using the network railcard that i poses. I don’t know what to do about the short fares bought with the 16-17 saver. I have my girlfriend as an alibi for my trips to Brighton. And moreover the past bookings receipt doesn’t show whether i bought the tickets using a railcard at all.
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[MotCO]

I'm a bit confused why you bought tickets requiring a 16 - 17 rail card. Is this the first fare on the screen offered on the Trainline app, or did you have to look for it? I ask because this is something you may need to explain in your response to their letter.

A second question - do you have any sort of railcard, and did you just choose the wrong fare for your railcard? In which case an offence has probably been committed, but probably at zero cost to the railways, and if so you may again which to cover this in your response.

Thirdly, if you're eligible, have you thought about purchasing a railcard to give you cheaper fares?

 

[zwk500]

I'm a bit confused why you bought tickets requiring a 16 - 17 rail card. Is this the first fare on the screen offered on the Trainline app, or did you have to look for it? I ask because this is something you may need to explain in your response to their letter.

Normally you need to specifically add these railcards to your profile, although not 100% sure how Trainline does it. If OP has previously held a 16-17 Railcard then changed to a Network Railcard I can easily imagine forgetting to update the railcard in the app. I made the same mistake when I changed from a 16-25 railcard to a 26-30 railcard.

A second question - do you have any sort of railcard, and did you just choose the wrong fare for your railcard? In which case an offence has probably been committed, but probably at zero cost to the railways, and if so you may again which to cover this in your response.

Thirdly, if you're eligible, have you thought about purchasing a railcard to give you cheaper fares?

OP has stated they have a Network Railcard.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A second question - do you have any sort of railcard, and did you just choose the wrong fare for your railcard? In which case an offence has probably been committed, but probably at zero cost to the railways, and if so you may again which to cover this in your response.

Doesn't a 16-17 railcard offer a bigger discount on the cost of a ticket than a Network railcard?

 

[Kk1990]

I'm a bit confused why you bought tickets requiring a 16 - 17 rail card. Is this the first fare on the screen offered on the Trainline app, or did you have to look for it? I ask because this is something you may need to explain in your response to their letter.

A second question - do you have any sort of railcard, and did you just choose the wrong fare for your railcard? In which case an offence has probably been committed, but probably at zero cost to the railways, and if so you may again which to cover this in your response.

Thirdly, if you're eligible, have you thought about purchasing a railcard to give you cheaper fares?

Normally you need to specifically add these railcards to your profile, although not 100% sure how Trainline does it. If OP has previously held a 16-17 Railcard then changed to a Network Railcard I can easily imagine forgetting to update the railcard in the app. I made the same mistake when I changed from a 16-25 railcard to a 26-30 railcard.

OP has stated they have a Network Railcard.

Yes i have never possessed a 16-17 saver i have a network railcard since may. The only thing i can think of is that i happen to check what sort of discounts different railcard offers as this is a relatively new country to me and i have been travelling for work and leisure so just to check how cheap tickets can get. But never did i realise that i was buying the short fares using the 16-17 railcard.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2022 ==

Doesn't a 16-17 railcard offer a bigger discount on the cost of a ticket than a Network railcard?

Yes its does i reckon.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello everyone i have no idea how this has happened however i have been purchasing tickets of small value eg. cambridge north to cambridge and Falmer to Brighton using the wrong railcard upon checking i found out it to be 16-17 saver. I only poses a network railcard. Today in the morning i was stopped by a ticket inspector and i complied with whatever he asked for and didn’t show any restraint. Upon checking there are quite a few tickets in my Trainline history which i have purchased using the incorrect rail card but these are all small journeys. I am a bit scared because i am not from this country and i don’t know what will
happen. I am happy to pay any fine as this is basically fare evasion which i accept. But just concerned whether matter like these go to court ? Or can be handled out of court as this is not really a first time offence as i have bought multiple tickets in the past. I should have checked first but I didn’t and thats my fault. Can anyone tell me what can i expect ?
Thanks in advance

Which journey were you making when you were stopped, and with which ticket? Where were you stopped?

It’s going to look very suspicious that you claim only to take one-stop trips which just so happen to be at the opposite ends of the same railway line. You should be aware that this looks like evidence of doughnutting.

 

[Birmingham]

It’s terribly unfortunate the OP selected a 16-17 Saver over any other railcard; the only railcard (to my knowledge) which gives a 1/2 discount vice 1/3 discount.

 

[Kk1990]

Which journey were you making when you were stopped, and with which ticket? Where were you stopped?

It’s going to look very suspicious that you claim only to take one-stop trips which just so happen to be at the opposite ends of the same railway line. You should be aware that this looks like evidence of doughnutting.

I was stopped at cambridge by greater anglia inspector outside the train station after the turnstiles. I live in cambridge. My bike had been parked at cambridge north for two days so i decided to take a open return to cambridge main station so that i bring my bike home on my way back. But because of the error i made i bought an advance single on the way back from cambridge to cambridge north.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2022 ==

It’s terribly unfortunate the OP selected a 16-17 Saver over any other railcard; the only railcard (to my knowledge) which gives a 1/2 discount vice 1/3 discount.

I am just a big idiot i should have double checked.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2022 ==

I'm a bit confused why you bought tickets requiring a 16 - 17 rail card. Is this the first fare on the screen offered on the Trainline app, or did you have to look for it? I ask because this is something you may need to explain in your response to their letter.

A second question - do you have any sort of railcard, and did you just choose the wrong fare for your railcard? In which case an offence has probably been committed, but probably at zero cost to the railways, and if so you may again which to cover this in your response.

Thirdly, if you're eligible, have you thought about purchasing a railcard to give you cheaper fares?

Its the first railcard you see on the application that you can choose. Moreover it was because of him i also got to know that I can’t use my network railcard before 10.

 

[AlterEgo]

I was stopped at cambridge by greater anglia inspector outside the train station after the turnstiles. I live in cambridge. My bike had been parked at cambridge north for two days so i decided to take a open return to cambridge main station so that i bring my bike home on my way back. But because of the error i made i bought an advance single on the way back from cambridge to cambridge north.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2022 ==


I am just a big idiot i should have double checked.

I’m a bit confused. Which ticket did you have on you when you were stopped? An advance single, or the open return? And where had you travelled from? Cambridge North to Cambridge, and you were stopped on exiting?

 

[Kk1990]

I’m a bit confused. Which ticket did you have on you when you were stopped? An advance single, or the open return? And where had you travelled from? Cambridge North to Cambridge, and you were stopped on exiting?

I am sorry i will explain i got the ticket from cambridge north to cambridge open return and i was stopped after exiting the cambridge train station.

 

[Kk1990]

Hello everyone,
So this letter has arrived and i need your help in order to see what can i do with it. What should i tell them. Should i plead guilty ? Or how should i write my email. This is from greater anglia so i believe i am not being investigated by the other train companies or they haven’t arrived yet. Can you please help me. Thanks in advance

 

[andrew749]

I would suggest you limit your reply to the journey they've asked you about. You need to admit that you were travelling with the wrong ticket, apologise, and say what you're doing to ensure this doesn't happen again (for instance, double-checking that you've selected the correct railcard in the app when you're buying tickets). Also ask if it would be possible to settle the matter without going to court.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I would suggest you limit your reply to the journey they've asked you about. You need to admit that you were travelling with the wrong ticket, apologise, and say what you're doing to ensure this doesn't happen again (for instance, double-checking that you've selected the correct railcard in the app when you're buying tickets). Also ask if it would be possible to settle the matter without going to court.

This is good advice. You also need to realise that the railway have NOT yet decided to take you to court: if they are happy with your reply they may agree to settle out of court. So you need to make it clear that you won't buy the wrong fare again and (as @andrew749 has said) what you will do to stop the problem happening again.

 

[RPI]

If nothing else I'd redact your name from the image of the letter that you've posted

 

[Kk1990]

Thank you guys for your inputs i will put in what i have mentioned in the email here soon. Would appreciate your feedback. Thanks again.

 

[Hadders]

You might want to mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. Accepting an administrative settlement might seem like a fine but technically it isn't, and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter you have received (with personal details redacted), along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Kk1990]

Hello everyone, this is what i have decided to write in the email would love to get your inputs please.

Respected sir/madam,

I am writing this email in regards to the letter received about a travel irregularity on the 15th of August.
Please accept my sincere apologise for my actions. It was a mistake that i have made and i do understand the consequences. I have learnt my lesson and i make extra care while booking train tickets using the Trainline applications. I have also familiarised my self With the terms and conditions of the network railcard and i assure you that i will not use it outside its restrictions.

I would request you to kindly resolve this matter without taking it to court.
I would like to offer the difference in the fare and any administrative cost incurred by the company in this matter.

I hope my plea would be dealt with kindness without any need for serious actions against me.

Regards

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello everyone, this is what i have decided to write in the email would love to get your inputs please.

Respected sir/madam,

I am writing this email in regards to the letter received about a travel irregularity on the 15th of August.
Please accept my sincere apologise for my actions. It was a mistake that i have made and i do understand the consequences. I have learnt my lesson and i make extra care while booking train tickets using the Trainline applications. I have also familiarised my self With the terms and conditions of the network railcard and i assure you that i will not use it outside its restrictions.

I would request you to kindly resolve this matter without taking it to court.
I would like to offer the difference in the fare and any administrative cost incurred by the company in this matter.

I hope my plea would be dealt with kindness without any need for serious actions against me.

Regards

Looks pretty good to me.

I would say 'Dear Sir/Madam' is the usual form of salutation in the UK

Last line - I'd be attempted to amend as per:

'I hope my plea can be dealt with sympathetically' would be dealt with kindness without any need for serious actions against me.

but those suggested amends are matters of style really so up to you on what you feel comfortable writing.

 

[Kk1990]

Thank you for your input i have send the email and hopefully i get the not so positive positive response.you not what i mean. Thank you to anyone who took time to help me out regarding this issue. Hopefully everything will go fine. You all take care and i will keep you guys posted about the outcome.

 

[MotCO]

Hello everyone, this is what i have decided to write in the email would love to get your inputs please.

Respected sir/madam,

I am writing this email in regards to the letter received about a travel irregularity on the 15th of August.
Please accept my sincere apologise for my actions. It was a mistake that i have made and i do understand the consequences. I have learnt my lesson and i make extra care while booking train tickets using the Trainline applications. I have also familiarised my self With the terms and conditions of the network railcard and i assure you that i will not use it outside its restrictions.

I would request you to kindly resolve this matter without taking it to court.
I would like to offer the difference in the fare and any administrative cost incurred by the company in this matter.

I hope my plea would be dealt with kindness without any need for serious actions against me.

Regards

If I may be 'picky'?

1. 'i' should be capitalised - e.g. ' that I have made'.
2. "It was a mistake that i have made and i do understand the consequences". I wonder whether a 'now' should be inserted; it sounds to me that I made the mistake whilst knowing the consequences. Inserting 'now' indicates that you have now realised the consquences after making the mistake and learning the impact for the company. Thus "It was a mistake that I have made and I now do understand the consequences".

 

[Kk1990]

Yes thats a good input, i have capitalised all the I’s before sending the email but i guess its too late to insert ‘now’ as i have already sent the email. But i did get an automatic reply that the inbox admin for frauds is on annual leave. Not sure if unsending the email to make one minor change would be worth it. However it does make sene to insert a now.

 

[AlterEgo]

If a named person wrote to you, write back to the named person, not "Dear sir or madam".

 

[Kk1990]

Hi I appreciate the inputs but i have already sent the email the letter was signed by a named person on behalf of the prosecution team. I don’t if i should send the email again with the said changes ? Are these changes important and can they affect the outcome ? Should i try to recall the email and send a new one ?