Boris Johnson is a liability.

[Teflon Lettuce]

Many are wealthy enough before they become MPs to mean the MP salary itself is pretty meaningless to them. Boris Johnson (while London Mayor, with a salary about double that of a backbench MP) described the 250k a year he was getting for his Telegraph columns as "chicken feed". Whatever the attraction of politics for him is, I think it's safe to say it's not the MPs salary.

lol and that, to be honest, is the other problem we have with our political system... the lack of MP's who know what it's like to struggle to make ends meet day in day out...

it should be a law that no-one can become an MP until they have spent a yr trying to live on the amount that they would get if they were claiming benefits... at least then we'd stop all the twaddle about how the poor are just a bunch of scroungers... spouted by the likes of BoJo and his cronies who think that being "poor" is only being able to afford 6 foreign holidays this yr instead of the normal 8!

 

[najaB]

oh? so not for the ridiculously high salary and benefits package then?

You can get *much* better salary and benefits in the private sector. An MP's salary is £77,000pa. That is comparable to the upper end of middle-management pay scales in a large company.

 

[bramling]

oh? not that good eh? well let's have a look at it. quite apart from the actual salary, which is more than the majority of the electorate could hope to earn there's the benefits...

Live outside of London? that's ok you can claim for a 2nd home AND your travel expenses between your 2 homes... you can claim for "office supplies" you can claim a "salary" for your "secretary" who can just happen to be your wife/ husband/ bit on the side... you can claim meal allowances, travel expenses... in fact just about everything! in fact I can't see how an MP ever has to actually SPEND any of their salary... a bit of clever accounting and you can just about get every single normal living expense paid for through your expense account!

oh, and of course, as I said before... you don't actually HAVE to turn up to work to earn all this lovely lolly!

not generous? well I for one would absolutely LOVE a job with a BASE salary over £50k for a job where I don't have to even turn up to work!

There are certainly jobs where people get paid well over 50k for outwardly not doing much - I can think of some in the railway industry for a start.

As regards second homes, the nature of being an MP is that there will always need to be a time share between Westminster and the constituency. How else do you propose this fundamental issue be reconciled?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

There are certainly jobs where people get paid well over 50k for outwardly not doing much - I can think of some in the railway industry for a start.

As regards second homes, the nature of being an MP is that there will always need to be a time share between Westminster and the constituency. How else do you propose this fundamental issue be reconciled?

how about find a tower block in a sink estate and convert it into a "hotel" for MP's.... at least that way they'd get some idea of how those they represent have to live... it'd certainly be an eye-opener for many of our MP's... on a more serious note though...why pay them an "allowance" for a 2nd home, especially with what we know about how the rules have been opposed by a significant number of MP's over the yrs? why not, if they have to stay over, put them up in a Premier Inn or Travelodge? That's what all other employers do...

 

[muddythefish]

Can it?

I take it you are speaking from personal experience and have a first from oxford yourself?

Doubtful.

As a betting man, I’ll wager a CSE in basket weaving or traffic light studies from Luton polly is more likely in your case.

Says a train driver. Excuse me while I bow to your intellectual prowess.

 

[muddythefish]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45468544

More good news. The Tory split threatens to become a chasm.

 

[muddythefish]

Yes, he's very smart and almost plays the bumbling and comedic oaf as a role.

I think he's been very smart with his aim to become PM and oust Theresa May, or whoever was PM, by going along with Brexit despite knowing it would be a disaster. A disaster that could get him in the door.

It seems everything he's done has been for his own benefit and certainly not that of the country.

I'll accept that the supporters of Alexander are sane and qualify as citizens of the UK - after all, they can dress themselves, find their way to work and can work well enough to be paid, and are probably liked by their families and have sufficient manners not to be offensive all the time - but why do they think that Boris is fit to be leader of their party, and, even more unbelievably, is fit to lead our country?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I'll accept that the supporters of Alexander are sane and qualify as citizens of the UK - after all, they can dress themselves, find their way to work and can work well enough to be paid, and are probably liked by their families and have sufficient manners not to be offensive all the time - but why do they think that Boris is fit to be leader of their party, and, even more unbelievably, is fit to lead our country?

probably for the same reasons that they thought that David Cameron and Theresa May would do a good job of the same?

 

[eotw]

Boris is very smart in some areas, in other areas he isn't half as smart as he likes to think he is.

Some of his decisions as London Mayor demonstrate this - London Garden Bridge - he seems to lack the ability to concentrate on details (Something Teresa has to a fault) and assumes problems can be solved with a grandiose sweep of the arms.

He also has a reputation for laziness in office. He also appears to have an enormous ego coupled with limitless ambition and no principles.

If you want someone to win an argument for you, Boris is your man. If you want something done, maybe not.

 

[bramling]

Says a train driver. Excuse me while I bow to your intellectual prowess.

That’s rather ungracious.

There are more than a few train drivers with various qualifications (ranging right up to degrees from prestigious high-demand universities) and/or who have done other things beforehand or in a few cases alongside. Either people who have already made their fortunes, prefer the shift pattern giving things like days off in the week, or God forbid just like the railway!

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

That’s rather ungracious.

There are more than a few train drivers with various qualifications (ranging right up to degrees from prestigious high-demand universities) and/or who have done other things beforehand or in a few cases alongside. Either people who have already made their fortunes, prefer the shift pattern giving things like days off in the week, or God forbid just like the railway!

don't take it to heart... people think the same way about bus drivers... just a bunch of numptys that couldn't do any job with any skill or intellect... forgetting of course that the job itself takes a lot of both of those qualities!

 

[bramling]

how about find a tower block in a sink estate and convert it into a "hotel" for MP's.... at least that way they'd get some idea of how those they represent have to live... it'd certainly be an eye-opener for many of our MP's... on a more serious note though...why pay them an "allowance" for a 2nd home, especially with what we know about how the rules have been opposed by a significant number of MP's over the yrs? why not, if they have to stay over, put them up in a Premier Inn or Travelodge? That's what all other employers do...

Is that really going to attract the best people? Whilst I sympathise, to a certain extent, with the viewpoint that we certainly don’t want an Old Etonians club of people born into wealth, there has to be a package that will attract people - and that has to include people who aren’t wealthy. At least with the current system it makes the role open to all.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Is that really going to attract the best people? Whilst I sympathise, to a certain extent, with the viewpoint that we certainly don’t want an Old Etonians club of people born into wealth, there has to be a package that will attract people - and that has to include people who aren’t wealthy. At least with the current system it makes the role open to all.

well enough companies manage to recruit candidates of the right calibre without resorting to paying for 2nd homes and paying expenses for every conceivable living expense..

The way forward is to pay a descent salary, payments for staying in a REASONABLY priced hotel when in London and it's not acceptable to travel home overnight, plus an overnight allowance for food {about £25 should do it... that's what the taxman says is reasonable for us bus/ coach drivers!}

Of course I'm sure that many of the MP's now sitting would probably squeal "unfair" and want to resign because of the "poor" package... but to be honest, if someone doesn't think that £77k per annum plus overnight expenses isn't a good enough package then they are just greedy and in the job for one person and one person only... do we really want those sorts running our country?

 

[bramling]

well enough companies manage to recruit candidates of the right calibre without resorting to paying for 2nd homes and paying expenses for every conceivable living expense..

The way forward is to pay a descent salary, payments for staying in a REASONABLY priced hotel when in London and it's not acceptable to travel home overnight, plus an overnight allowance for food {about £25 should do it... that's what the taxman says is reasonable for us bus/ coach drivers!}

Of course I'm sure that many of the MP's now sitting would probably squeal "unfair" and want to resign because of the "poor" package... but to be honest, if someone doesn't think that £77k per annum plus overnight expenses isn't a good enough package then they are just greedy and in the job for one person and one person only... do we really want those sorts running our country?

£77k per annum doesn’t go far living in London.

You may well be right for some people at least. The problem is that most people are motivated by money, that’s just a fact of life. As long as there are other avenues where people can earn *vastly* more, with better long-term job security, and without the negatives that come with being an MP, the remuneration package needs to be competitive. It’s basic supply & demand economics.

What I firmly *don’t* agree with is MPs abusing the package they get. There’s certainly been plenty of well-known bad apples in recent years, and that is something which should be firmly stamped upon.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

£77k per annum doesn’t go far living in London.

But isn't that the whole argument about 2nd home allowance? an MP doesn't LIVE in London, apart obviously from those that represent London constituencies.. therefore the salary is perfectly adequate at £77k after all it's double what most people earn!

What I firmly *don’t* agree with is MPs abusing the package they get. There’s certainly been plenty of well-known bad apples in recent years, and that is something which should be firmly stamped upon.

I don't disagree with you on that one... which is why my proposal would be basic salary+ reasonable hotel costs+ reasonable overnight allowance+ 2nd class rail season ticket between constituency and London.

 

[jon0844]

If an MP is spending a lot of time travelling then I don't see the harm in them having first class travel if they can productive onboard.

We should always call out anyone abusing their job, but not simply seek to have it in for all of them for the sake of it.

 

[birchesgreen]

Do MPs need to be in London so much of the time anyway? If only the technology existed for teleconferencing and electronic voting...

 

[bramling]

If an MP is spending a lot of time travelling then I don't see the harm in them having first class travel.

I don’t either. At the end of the day first class gives them more chance of using the time to get on with work, which is in all our collective interests. And if making potentially very long journeys on a regular basis as part of their work, why begrudge them that bit of extra comfort?

And, to be fair, being an MP should be a role we all respect. I don’t have a problem with first-class travel being part of the job. It’s exactly what I’d expect first to be aimed at - not screaming families travelling on a cheap advance.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

If an MP is spending a lot of time travelling then I don't see the harm in them having first class travel.

really? well considering it's the tax money of people who are struggling to make ends meet then I begrudge every penny more than "essential" that our MP's spend on luxuries... tbh in my book they should think themselves lucky to be given 2nd class rail... especially if there's a megabus they could go on... truth is, if you stopped the gravy train that MP's salary, perks and expenses has become then perhaps we'd get some MP's that want to do their best for the country rather than what's best for their own pockets!

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

And, to be fair, being an MP should be a role we all respect. On principle so don’t have a problem with first-class travel being part of the job. It’s exactly what I’d expect first to be aimed at - not screaming families travelling on a cheap advance.

I respect the role, and it is a role I wouldn't want to fulfil for all the tea in China... but I will NOT respect the current crop of MP's of ANY party who wouldn't know a principle if it slapped them in the face with a wet haddock!

 

[bramling]

really? well considering it's the tax money of people who are struggling to make ends meet then I begrudge every penny more than "essential" that our MP's spend on luxuries... tbh in my book they should think themselves lucky to be given 2nd class rail... especially if there's a megabus they could go on... truth is, if you stopped the gravy train that MP's salary, perks and expenses has become then perhaps we'd get some MP's that want to do their best for the country rather than what's best for their own pockets!

... or you might find we end up with worse ones than we have now thanks to not so many people being attracted to the role.

I *really* don’t want to end up in the position where it’s a wealth/privilege club.

We already have a bit of a talent crisis brewing, hence why Boris is even a serious proposition for PM!

Actually I’d go as far as to say I’d rather my tax went on funding a decent reward package for decent MPs than subsidising certain welfare payments or propping up the EU budget, to name two things which readily spring to mind.

 

[bramling]

I respect the role, and it is a role I wouldn't want to fulfil for all the tea in China... but I will NOT respect the current crop of MP's of ANY party who wouldn't know a principle if it slapped them in the face with a wet haddock!

That’s a separate issue. At the end of the day we all elected them, and they’ve been through a selection process. Either we as a society have unrealistic expectations or something has gone seriously wrong.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

... or you might find we end up with worse ones than we have now thanks to not so many people being attracted to the role.

I *really* don’t want to end up in the position where it’s a wealth/privilege club.

We already have a bit of a talent crisis brewing, hence why Boris is even a serious proposition for PM!

Actually I’d go as far as to say I’d rather my tax went on funding a decent reward package for decent MPs than subsidising certain welfare payments or propping up the EU budget, to name two things which readily spring to mind.

I wondered how quickly mention of MP's salaries and expenses would lead to a comparison to welfare benefits... you want to complain about our generous welfare benefits do you? do you know how much you get on benefit?

Due to the misfortune of having HAD to leave my last job I do... As a single man I get £73.15 per week Jobseekers allowance... and I get £317 pcm towards my rent... unfortunately my rent is £525 so I am having to move... because there is no accodation round where I live available at the amount of housing benefit I'm entitled I'm having to move over 50 miles away to keep a roof over my head!

Oh... and just so you know.. those amounts are the same as they were 5 YEARS ago.... 0% "pay" increase in 5 yrs... as a rail worker by what percentage have your wages gone up by? what's the average inflation been over those 5 yrs?

Benefit claimants not deserving of being supported by the state? but millionaires like BoJo, Gideon, David Cameron and all their cronies are?

Don't make me laugh!

 

[Typhoon]

Boris is very smart in some areas, in other areas he isn't half as smart as he likes to think he is.

Spot on.

… he seems to lack the ability to concentrate on details … and assumes problems can be solved with a grandiose sweep of the arms.

Like Boris Island (transport links, costs of construction, problems with the locality) - response: grunts, indecipherable syllables, wave the arm. Problems solved. And the Northern Ireland border - likening it to the Congestion zone. Problem solved.

If you want someone to win an argument for you, Boris is your man. If you want something done, maybe not.

Plenty of photo opportunities but during his tenure at the F&CO I got fed up with the number of times that there were stories on our local TV news of people who had asked the Office for help but with no success. I don't expect him to sort out the problems but I do expect the minister to set the tone. Interestingly, I have already heard similar stories where people have thanked Jeremy Hunt for his intervention. He probably did very little himself but did make sure it was done.​

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Interestingly, I have already heard similar stories where people have thanked Jeremy Hunt for his intervention. He probably did very little himself but did make sure it was done.

I bet Jeremy Hunt jumped at the chance of succeeding BoJo... after his disastrous uncaring tenure at Health his public reputation was in tatters... no matter how incompetent he does or doesn't turn out to be at F&CO the worst that will ever be said of him in the role is "at least he isn't BoJo, no-one can ever be as bad as him"

 

[bramling]

I wondered how quickly mention of MP's salaries and expenses would lead to a comparison to welfare benefits... you want to complain about our generous welfare benefits do you? do you know how much you get on benefit?

Due to the misfortune of having HAD to leave my last job I do... As a single man I get £73.15 per week Jobseekers allowance... and I get £317 pcm towards my rent... unfortunately my rent is £525 so I am having to move... because there is no accodation round where I live available at the amount of housing benefit I'm entitled I'm having to move over 50 miles away to keep a roof over my head!

Oh... and just so you know.. those amounts are the same as they were 5 YEARS ago.... 0% "pay" increase in 5 yrs... as a rail worker by what percentage have your wages gone up by? what's the average inflation been over those 5 yrs?

Benefit claimants not deserving of being supported by the state? but millionaires like BoJo, Gideon, David Cameron and all their cronies are?

Don't make me laugh!

I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate about welfare - we all have our opinions on that.

I’m not thinking about the likes of Johnson, Osborne and Cameron - but your average real or potential MP.

The very fact that we’re able to readily think of some pretty well-heeled MPs reminds us how important it is to attract less financially secure people to the role. We also need to attract talented people who might otherwise not be tempted to leave a well-paid job.

You could construct a case for some kind of means testing, but I don’t see why that should really apply to MPs any more than any other job. Rightly or wrongly -depending on our individual opinions - the tax system is the way this country redistributes income, and I see no reason why MPs should be any different.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate about welfare - we all have our opinions on that.

I’m not thinking about the likes of Johnson, Osborne and Cameron - but your average real or potential MP.

The very fact that we’re able to readily think of some pretty well-heeled MPs reminds us how important it is to attract less financially secure people to the role. We also need to attract talented people who might otherwise not be tempted to leave a well-paid job.

There's the problem though... most of our MP's are middle middle class and above, already either having a private income or well paid jobs... suggesting that no matter whether the package offered was £0 or £1 million a yr then Joe Bloggs from down the street wouldn't become an MP... let's not forget that it isn't the public that elects their MP, in effect it is the Party apparachnik of the winning candidate that chooses the MP... after all you have to be selected by your party to stand in the first place... Can you really see the Tory Grandees in a place like Surbiton picking a single mother living on a rough council estate and on benefits as THEIR candidate?

You could construct a case for some kind of means testing, but I don’t see why that should really apply to MPs as opposed to any other job. Rightly or wrongly depending on our individual opinions the tax system is the way of redistributing income, and I see no reason why MPs should be any different.

well considering that most welfare benefits are means tested why not MP's salaries? what's good for the goose is good for the gander....

 

[Typhoon]

I bet Jeremy Hunt jumped at the chance of succeeding BoJo... after his disastrous uncaring tenure at Health his public reputation was in tatters... no matter how incompetent he does or doesn't turn out to be at F&CO the worst that will ever be said of him in the role is "at least he isn't BoJo, no-one can ever be as bad as him"

Having said that, he rejected a move earlier in the year. Foreign Secretary does guarantee immortality though, in years to come he will be an answer on Pointless!

 

[deltic]

MPs are not well paid, most work long hours including most weekends, the mean salary of a full time worker in LB of Westminster is £60k a year. In some parties MPs are also expected to donate a significant proportion of their salary to party funds. Commuting is not a perk - if you have ever had to work from home for a long time then staying in a hotel is not a luxury but a chore. Of course there are some who abuse the system - partly due to our outdated first past the post system which means MPs in safe seats can do nothing and they will still be elected.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

MPs are not well paid, most work long hours including most weekends, the mean salary of a full time worker in LB of Westminster is £60k a year. In some parties MPs are also expected to donate a significant proportion of their salary to party funds. Commuting is not a perk - if you have ever had to work from home for a long time then staying in a hotel is not a luxury but a chore. Of course there are some who abuse the system - partly due to our outdated first past the post system which means MPs in safe seats can do nothing and they will still be elected.

well I used to have a job that was half and half... some weeks I would be home every evening... with an hrs commute each way...cook my own meals when I got home... do the housework etc etc... other weeks I'd be put up in a hotel every night... meals cooked and served.. housekeeping doing all the chores... can't think why but I always preferred being on tour rather than service work!?!

As to the average salary in Westminster... that's immaterial... the primary place of work of an MP is in their own constituency!