Boris Johnson calls for referendum on leaving ECHR

[Tester]

Reported in The Guardian (link to article in which Boris Johnson calls for referendum on leaving the European Convention on Human Rights)

Boris Johnson has called for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European convention on human rights, a move likely to increase pressure on those vying for the Conservative leadership to follow suit.

The former prime minister told the Daily Telegraph there was a “strong case” for a vote on the ECHR, which some Tories blame for hampering their efforts to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda....

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[nw1]

Why doesn't he just shut the hell up, apply for American citizenship (which he could probably get because he was born there), and shove off to Mar-a-Lago to live with his mate Donald?

That stupid, stupid man has already done untold damage to this country. He's a has-been, an anachronism, and even the Brexiters don't like him any more since he locked us all down while he and his Tory mates partied.

 

[jfollows]

He already gave up his US citizenship for tax and probably other reasons, mind you I’m with you in thinking they’re welcome to him.
ECHR is not something appropriate for a referendum, it’s just that Johnson knows it would be likely to pass. Referendums are almost always bad ideas, called for political expediency rather than for common sense anyway.

 

[nw1]

He already gave up his US citizenship for tax and probably other reasons, mind you I’m with you in thinking they’re welcome to him.
ECHR is not something appropriate for a referendum, it’s just that Johnson knows it would be likely to pass. Referendums are almost always bad ideas, called for political expediency rather than for common sense anyway.

Indeed, as we have seen, many referenda are basically a device to allow unqualified people to make decisions on things which they know nothing about and don't understand the consequences of.

It is worrying that an anti-ECHR referendum could pass, though. It seems to suggest that we are a country full of right-wing reactionaries.

 

[Gloster]

He has a book to sell and want to please the editor of the Daily Mail, who might be wondering why it is paying him a six-figure salary for the whiffle he usually turns out. And, I fear, he has not given up hoping to make a triumphant return, sweep Labour from power and lead the country to…fill in what you think is appropriate.

 

[nw1]

He has a book to sell and want to please the editor of the Daily Mail, who might be wondering why it is paying him a six-figure salary for the whiffle he usually turns out. And, I fear, he has not given up hoping to make a triumphant return, sweep Labour from power and lead the country to…fill in what you think is appropriate.

I think he's deluded if he thinks that. People have surely not forgotten Partygate and the hypocrisy that went on during Covid.

 

[edwin_m]

Indeed, as we have seen, many referenda are basically a device to allow unqualified people to make decisions on things which they know nothing about and don't understand the consequences of.

It is worrying that an anti-EHCR referendum could pass, though. It seems to suggest that we are a country full of right-wing reactionaries.

Polls show a majority favouring in principle re-joining the EU. This doesn't mean they want to open the process now, partly because of all the division it caused last time round. I can't see a referendum on the ECHR for both those reasons but also because Labour wouldn't let it happen.

He has a book to sell and want to please the editor of the Daily Mail, who might be wondering why it is paying him a six-figure salary for the whiffle he usually turns out. And, I fear, he has not given up hoping to make a triumphant return, sweep Labour from power and lead the country to…fill in what you think is appropriate.

His boots?

 

[nw1]

Meanwhile, what of this from the article?

Johnson also told the Telegraph that while he was foreign secretary, a listening device was found in his private bathroom after it had been used by Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister. He added the timing “may or may not be a coincidence”.

 

[jfollows]

It is worrying that an anti-ECHR referendum could pass, though. It seems to suggest that we are a country full of right-wing reactionaries.

I don’t think most people care about the ECHR; it’s not high on my agenda but I’d still vote to stay part of it. Then it only takes 11% of people to vote to leave, 10% to vote to remain, and 79% who can’t be bothered to vote.
The right-wing reactionaries exist but not in such numbers as recent trends might on the face of it suggest.

 

[nw1]

I don’t think most people care about the ECHR; it’s not high on my agenda but I’d still vote to stay part of it. Then it only takes 11% of people to vote to leave, 10% to vote to remain, and 79% who can’t be bothered to vote.
The right-wing reactionaries exist but not in such numbers as recent trends might on the face of it suggest.

Very true.
Of course it illustrates the oft-made point about badly-designed referenda which assume that if a radical and risky choice "wins" the referendum it equals a popular mandate for radical and risky change, even if the turnout is low.

 

[3141]

He has a book to sell and want to please the editor of the Daily Mail, who might be wondering why it is paying him a six-figure salary for the whiffle he usually turns out. And, I fear, he has not given up hoping to make a triumphant return, sweep Labour from power and lead the country to…fill in what you think is appropriate.

Perhaps the purpose of calling for a referendum on leaving the ECHR is to test how much support there might be for a referendum on making Boris Johnson leader of the Conservative Party again.

 

[Harpo]

Johnson is a constant reminder of the deeply divided Tory party, divisions he fuelled to his own advantage (quelle suprise!) through the ERG and elsewhere

Jenrick, a dangerous* individual on the right of the party, is also advocating departure from the ECHR in a competition which party members (where Johnson is popular) will decide, in a party with an atrocious recent record on leadership selection.



* Recent utterances suggesting UK military kill rather than detain refer.

 

[Howardh]

Tell you what, let all those citizens who wish to leave the ECHR do so, and carry a card with them so when they are arrested and want a fair trial, sorry but they don't want their Human Right to one, so tough. Or they get arrested for saying what they think of the government - as they've ditched their right to free speech. Etc etc.

 

[dosxuk]

Tell you what, let all those citizens who wish to leave the ECHR do so, and carry a card with them so when they are arrested and want a fair trial, sorry but they don't want their Human Right to one, so tough. Or they get arrested for saying what they think of the government - as they've ditched their right to free speech. Etc etc.

No, no, you've got it wrong. They're not interested in having their own human rights removed, they just want other people to have their human rights removed.

 

[Purple Train]

I think he's deluded if he thinks that. People have surely not forgotten Partygate and the hypocrisy that went on during Covid.

One look at current opinion polling will answer that for you. Surely the Conservatives weren't so bad as the current lot, who are accepting freebies, for goodness' sake. Surely they never sank that low...

I was told (by an A-level politics teacher, as it happens) that the reason the Tories themselves are keeping much more quiet than the right-wing media is because the Shadow Cabinet has to declare all gifts and suchlike and the Cabinet doesn't, so they themselves will probably have had similar gifts, but not had to declare them. Is this true?

 

[Gloster]

One look at current opinion polling will answer that for you. Surely the Conservatives weren't so bad as the current lot, who are accepting freebies, for goodness' sake. Surely they never sank that low...

I was told (by an A-level politics teacher, as it happens) that the reason the Tories themselves are keeping much more quiet than the right-wing media is because the Shadow Cabinet has to declare all gifts and suchlike and the Cabinet doesn't, so they themselves will probably have had similar gifts, but not had to declare them. Is this true?

Every MP has to declare all gifts over £300, including those to family members, while those over £500 must come from a permissible source, which basically means UK-based. Put simply, ministers do not have to declare gifts given to them in their ministerial status, but they can only keep items under £140 and should display probity. Each government issues it own rules after coming to power and Starmer has not issued his yet.

Ministers did not have to report gifts of hospitality given to them in their ministerial role, like Johnson’s 2021 holiday, but it was announced last month that they must henceforth. (“I am holidaying as a minister, not as an MP, so I don’t have to declare it.”)

A very simple version of: What gifts can MPs and ministers accept from donors? on the Institute for Government site.

 

[nw1]

One look at current opinion polling will answer that for you.

Seems to be that no party is doing particularly well, including the Tories.

Worryingly one poll seems to indicate that more people have a positive opinion, and less people have a negative opinion, of Farage as a party leader than either Starmer or Sunak (Opinium, 25-27 Sep; https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/VI-2024-09-25-Final-Tables-v3.xlsx)

Also worrying is how Starmer's approval rating went negative in the wake of the riots.

Seems to indicate that the country does perhaps have a big problem with far-right attitudes, given that Starmer's approach to the rioters seemed to be pretty robust so he can't be accused of weakness on the matter. It's as if many people had sympathy towards the protests, which is very very worrying given that they were essentially based off a lie and the protests were, IMO, generally fuelled by prejudice even if they were peaceful.

But it's not just here, far-right politics is very much a 2020s disease across the whole of the Western world.

 

[DarloRich]

Blast (In the real world I would use a different word) Boris Johnson and his views on anything except the inside of the cell he should be rotting in.

He has a book out. He is doing his act. Sensible people should ignore him. Silly people will lap it up.

 

[richw]

It is worrying that an anti-ECHR referendum could pass, though. It seems to suggest that we are a country full of right-wing reactionaries.

We’re a country with far too many xenophobics and racists, who think anything from Europe or further afield is bad. Their lack of education means they’re easily led by people like Farage and Boris.

 

[TheSmiths82]

My biggest worry with all this is people think the ECHR doesn't apply to them It offers protections we all have, and if we do leave the ECHR that is my last straw and will consider moving to Ireland, unless they scrap the 1922 agreement by then. While Labour won't let it happen, I fear the government will only be in power for 5 years unless they can make genuine change for the average worker.

The right wing press and unregulated social media are still allowed to peddle lies with no consequences.

 

[jfollows]

The right wing press and unregulated social media are still allowed to peddle lies with no consequences.

The same rules apply to the left-wing press.
Honestly, I’m surprised at how many people (more than none!) actually believe what they read in the press or on social media, at least without putting anything to independent proof, but I accept that they do, and that the press is predominantly right-wing.

 

[najaB]

I don’t think most people care about the ECHR; it’s not high on my agenda but I’d still vote to stay part of it. Then it only takes 11% of people to vote to leave, 10% to vote to remain, and 79% who can’t be bothered to vote.

So even though I don't see it happening, if it was to go ahead there would need to be rules around turnout - e.g. 66% of the electorate has to vote for the result to be binding.

 

[alex397]

I think he's deluded if he thinks that. People have surely not forgotten Partygate and the hypocrisy that went on during Covid.

I’m not sure. People have very short memories. For example, Farage did pretty much nothing as an MEP apart from wind people up, but the people of Clacton voted him in as their MP.

Hopefully we would never allow a refurendum for this to happen, as that would be very concerning if it went ahead and I would be looking to move to a different country. Brexit has already put that idea in my head anyway.

 

[nw1]

So even though I don't see it happening, if it was to go ahead there would need to be rules around turnout - e.g. 66% of the electorate has to vote for the result to be binding.

Or better, stipulate that 50% of the entire electorate have to vote to leave.
Radical change of this sort should never be allowed to be enacted if less than half of the electorate vote for it.

In terms of such a referendum actually happening, I guess the earliest would be 2030 (only in the case of a Tory or Tory/Reform win in 2029 and assuming the Tories haven't moderated by then). By 2030, hopefully, demographic shifts will likely dilute the anti-ECHR vote anyhow.

 

[SteveP29]

It's alright for Boris Johnson, he has the money, the influence and dare I say it, the power, to be completely unaffected by the withdrawal of his rights.
In fact, I'd go as far as to say that he'd enjoy it, because the fat, philandering, scruffy barrel of custard would then be able to call and treat people however he wanted knowing there'd be virtually no comeback on him.

He can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, apologies if that offends some sensibilities, but is a measure of the hatred I have for that man (and I don't hate very easily at all)

 

[RichJF]

Deserves to rot in a jail cell. Nothing better.

 

[Mag_seven]

Anyone would have thought he had a book out - oh wait a minute....

 

[DarloRich]

Anyone would have thought he had a book out - oh wait a minute....

And the right wing press for the hard of thinking are lapping it up.

When, WHEN!, will people learn?

 

[DelW]

It's alright for Boris Johnson, he has the money, the influence and dare I say it, the power, to be completely unaffected by the withdrawal of his rights.

He can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, apologies if that offends some sensibilities, but is a measure of the hatred I have for that man (and I don't hate very easily at all)

Deserves to rot in a jail cell. Nothing better.

I would happily vote YES in a referendum on whether Johnson should be incarcerated in a soundproof room for the rest of his life, so that the rest of us are spared the poisonous self-serving garbage that he spews out.

About 90% of the population is fed up with his lies, his arrogance, his selfishness and his wilful stupidity. The other 10% are the Tory faithful who still ignore all the evidence and think he's wonderful. Why anyone pays him any attention is beyond me.

 

[Tester]

And in other news.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...hits-out-at-greedy-keir-starmer-over-freebies

Keir Starmer’s decision to accept clothing freebies “looks greedy”, according to Boris Johnson.

The former prime minister criticised his Labour successor’s decision to accept gifts of clothing and glasses, saying Starmer “must be worth a bob or two” as a result of his legal career.

The projection is 'impressive'!