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Boris Bus in Leeds

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Busaholic

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There's been no huge leaps but there's been significant increases in frequency.

When it started the routes were:

T1 - 5tph day 2tph eves/Sun Elmers End - Wimbledon
T2 - 5tph day 2tph eves/Sun Beckenham Junction - Croydon
T3 - 8.5tph day 4tph eves/Sun New Addington - Croydon
and now they're

T1 - 4tph day 4tph eves/Sun Elmers End - Croydon
T2 - 6tph day 4tph eves/Sun Beckenham Junction - Croydon
T3 - 8tph day 4tph eves/Sun New Addington - Wimbledon
T4 - 4tph day 0tph eves/Sun Elmers End to Therapia Lane

So capacity has increased by:

Elmers End to Croydon 60% day, 100% eves/Sun
Wimbledon to Croydon 60% day, 100% eves/Sun
(Therapia Lane to Croydon section 140% day)
Beckenham Junction to Croydon 20% day, 100% eves/Sun
And less impressive:
New Addington to Croydon -6% day, 0% eves/Sun.

Yes, capacity increases mirroring passenger increases, thus showing effectiveness of system. Of course, if only Wimbledon Station terminus could be sorted out to hold two trams, a problem that was known about before the first tram ever ran, then a route terminating at Therapia Lane would not be necessary. As it is, surely the Therapia Lane service T4 should be merely shortworking journeys on the T3 thus improving the service to New Addington. I know 'shorts' are anathema to TfL who seem to think passengers are too thick to understand them (on the bus side anyway) despite the wonderful London bus system having been traditionally wedded to the concept, also routes working in sections depending on the time of day.

Keep the spare tph on the Addiscombe lines released from the T4 for if/when the Crystal Palace spur is built.
 
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Deerfold

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I know 'shorts' are anathema to TfL who seem to think passengers are too thick to understand them (on the bus side anyway) despite the wonderful London bus system having been traditionally wedded to the concept, also routes working in sections depending on the time of day.

Hardly - have you seen the timetables for the 25 or the 38 with alternate buses finishing "short". Or the heritage runs on the 9 (and until recently on the 15).
And of course unscheduled curtailments happen far more in London that around the country.

What does happen of course is that buses going the full length of the route are busier so you get uneven loadings.

Where's the evidence that TfL think passengers are too thick? I suspect they merely think passengers get irritated by a bus with their number on that is of no use to them. Routes working in sections did tend to be far more complex than they needed to be - especially the routes where it was impossible to catch a bus that ran the full length of a route - not usually obvious from a map. This could make the 207, 253 and many other routes very annoying.
 

Busaholic

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Hardly - have you seen the timetables for the 25 or the 38 with alternate buses finishing "short". Or the heritage runs on the 9 (and until recently on the 15).
And of course unscheduled curtailments happen far more in London that around the country.

What does happen of course is that buses going the full length of the route are busier so you get uneven loadings.

Where's the evidence that TfL think passengers are too thick? I suspect they merely think passengers get irritated by a bus with their number on that is of no use to them. Routes working in sections did tend to be far more complex than they needed to be - especially the routes where it was impossible to catch a bus that ran the full length of a route - not usually obvious from a map. This could make the 207, 253 and many other routes very annoying.

You unwittingly make my point for me. When it suits the bus route controllers, buses can get turned short and the first the passenger knows about it is when an announcement is made 'this bus terminates here', often in the very recent past without any transfer ticket, so having to pay again for the inconvenience caused. The 25 and 38 are more examples, again both fairly recent, of it being for TfL's convenience, in both instances I would imagine of perceived incapacity ar the Oxford Circus and Clapton Pond stands respectively. Go to Holborn Circus and watch the third 25 in a row (literally) turning short there and all the passengers who've decamped waiting for one going through to Oxford Circus (no good looking for an 8 as they're not going through now while Crossrail work is on.)

As for 9 and 15, first of all it's the 9 H that's come off not the 15 H, the suffixes indicating the official route numbers even though the buses don't show them, so they are not strictly speaking short workings, but different routes.

It has certainly been stated by TfL's bus division that the general public cannot in the main understand the following:-
(A) Suffixed routes, so the century-old 77A had to become the 87, a route number always associated with the Barking area;
(B) Destination blinds with intermediate points 'because the bus may already have gone through that location when the passenger boards';
(C) Scheduled short workings, so every 21 has to drag through to Newington Green when Moorgate, Finsbury Square would do for half and provide a nice, completely empty bus in the p.m. peak to take the hordes southbound.

TfL may have slightly changed their position on (C) but the general dogma still persists, so that the 208 was no longer allowed to work in two, mostly overlapping sections, so instead the 320 had to be extended to Catford on a different frequency meaning between Catford and Bromley Common the two often run together followed by quite a gap.
 

Robertj21a

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Wouldn't all this useful stuff be better under a London/TfL thread rather than Boris Bus in Leeds ?
 

theblackwatch

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This appears to have come to the top of the news again, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-29893239

Routemaster-style buses proposed for busy Leeds routes
Routemaster-style buses could be introduced in Leeds under proposals from operator FirstGroup.

The company wants to introduce 200 of the three-door buses in a bid to improve journey times in West Yorkshire.

The buses are part of a package of proposals that includes smart ticketing and infrastructure changes.
 

Busaholic

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Well, nothing is stopping them. All they have to do is order the buses and pay for them. Am I missing something? Could it be a very capacious begging bowl capable of holding many millions of public money? I for one hopes it remains stubbornly empty: First are determined to shortcircuit the 'new trolleybus' proposals and should receive a severe and very nasty shock for their pains.
 

Deerfold

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Well, nothing is stopping them. All they have to do is order the buses and pay for them. Am I missing something? Could it be a very capacious begging bowl capable of holding many millions of public money? I for one hopes it remains stubbornly empty: First are determined to shortcircuit the 'new trolleybus' proposals and should receive a severe and very nasty shock for their pains.

West Yorks Combined Authority seem to be being similarly cautious - First gave them a presentation but they're looking for more details.

http://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=4294968200

2.3 WYCA were also concerned at the lack of clarity regarding the New Bus for Leeds /
West Yorkshire proposals as these had not been identified in the presentation that
was made to WYCA members on 26 June, meaning it was not clear what other
operators might commit to. In addition, it was understood that the New Bus for
West Yorkshire proposal is the subject to consultation, and was not necessarily seen
as a commitment.

Also worrying given MCards cannot be loaded with products at stations is the apparent withdrawal of photocard Metrocards from January 2015.
 
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plarailfan

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Back in the 1970's, there were loads of dual door buses in Leeds. These were gradually phased out as the WYPTE Atlanteans and (later on) Olympians replaced them.
Now, after thirty years, we seem to be suddenly going from, mostly, one door, to three door vehicles !
I guess First will be hoping Metro might be willing to abandon the trolleybus scheme and instead, pay towards the cost of buying and running a Borismaster fleet in Leeds.
Transport For london, probably feels a bit of a "Billy no mates" right now, as only they are currently running Borismaster, so no doubt they will be hoping Leeds and other cities will become interested.
I would have thought in this day and age of being environmentally friendly, the government / DFT would be getting involved in developing a proper transport policy for these buses, as the idea is clearly good, but the cost of the vehicle, along with three doors and a conductor, might not be ideal or appropriate for places outside of London !
I wonder if any other cities are considering Borismaster ? Maybe the design will be modified to provide fewer doors and more, lower deck seats to make it more appealing to a wider audience.
 

Deerfold

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I would have thought in this day and age of being environmentally friendly, the government / DFT would be getting involved in developing a proper transport policy for these buses, as the idea is clearly good, but the cost of the vehicle, along with three doors and a conductor, might not be ideal or appropriate for places outside of London !
I wonder if any other cities are considering Borismaster ? Maybe the design will be modified to provide fewer doors and more, lower deck seats to make it more appealing to a wider audience.

I'm not sure the idea is obviously good. There are other hybrid bus designs around which would not require modification.

The only advantage I can see of the Borismaster is the hop-on, hop-off platform but that seems to need a second member of staff which is very expensive. First only provide a second member of staff on one route in West Yorkshire at the moment (the bendy 72 Bradford - Leeds).

Extra doors won't be able to be used at most of the county's bus stations which are drive-in,drive-out so the doors would be unsafe to exit by. First have for many years converted their ex-London buses to be single door before taking them to the provinces.
 
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