Borders Railway - Now Open

[Starmill]

I counted 89 on departure from Newcraighall and 69 on departure from Galashiels on the 1524 from Edinburgh today. There were no seats available on leaving Edinburgh.
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There are signs hastily stuck up on the TVMs at Edinburgh asking people to purchase tickets for Galashiels at the Travel Centre.

 

[oglord]

http://wikishire.co.uk/map/#Stow@55.692,-2.852/centre=55.755,-2.791/zoom=10

 

[Crossover]

The stations not being in the TVM's is no surprise - it took weeks for James Cook to appear when it first opened - a week or two after opening even Middlesbrough's TVM didn't have it in!

Went to the TVM in Stoke-on-Trent today, you can select Galashiels as a destination, but it comes up with an error when moving onto the fare selection stage.

Possibly due to there being no fares? I know VT have neglected pricing a few destinations on the WCML!

EDIT: Yep, no fares exist!

 

[JB_B]

I think it's a fantastic achievement - we took the opportunity to trundle down from Waverley to Tweedbank and back on the first Sunday (6th).

There was a long queue for the ticket counters and it was a bit odd to find that none of the ticket machines had Galashiels or Tweedbank as destinations (I tried both the ScotRail and Virgin branded machines - I'm not sure if they're different in terms of the tickets available.) It turned out that ticket-sellers on the platform had no problem issuing tickets from portable machines.

That glitch apart - it was a great day out with a happy atmosphere on-board and a nice welcome at the stations.

( The apparently very high spec and sharp/shiny fencing gives a bit of a 'Restraint of Beasts' feel to some of the stations but I guess that will weather out in time. Does anyone know why that standard ticket machines couldn't sell tickets? - it wasn't exactly an unexpected event! )

 

[Crossover]

Does anyone know why that standard ticket machines couldn't sell tickets? - it wasn't exactly an unexpected event! )

If it is anything like where I work, no-one probably told the IT people :P

 

[overthewater]

The Borders wanted a railway, and they've certainly got the full experience, crush loading and all!
.

That put a smile on my face.

I see the crap 158, with the dodgy non working door and dirty floors is still in operation, personnel its needs to set alight.

There has also been complaints in the metro

http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=23853&stc=1&d=1442265011

 

[Crossover]

That put a smile on my face.

I see the crap 158, with the dodgy non working door and dirty floors is still in operation, personnel its needs to set alight.

There has also been complaints in the metro

http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=23853&stc=1&d=1442265011

Meh, the Newcraighall lot are just miffed they no longer have an entire train to choose from on boarding :P

 

[CheshireCrusty]

I wonder how many folk will recognise the entry for Stow by its Sunday name of Stow of Wedale as per the entry in the pic of the ticket machine.

Seems designed to confuse.

Living South of the Border where most ATMs are located, I think the confusion that is trying to be avoided over the name Stow is not with other stations but with places without a station, particularly Stow-in-the-Wolds and regularly shortened to Stow, or Stowe (Bucks), Stow Shropshire, or probably most likely Stow in East London.
A GoogleMaps search for "Stow" returned Stow House in Aysgarth and various other businesses located in Northern England (my location) but not the village of Stow (in or of Wedale?).
A wider Google search gives first a Wikepedia entry that says that Stow may refer to:
Stow cum Quy, Cambridgeshire
Stow, Lincolnshire or Stow-in-Lindsey
Stow of Wedale or Stow, Scottish Borders
Stow Bardolph, Norfolk
Stow-on-the-Wold, Gloucestershire
Stowmarket or Stow
Stow, Shropshire or Stoweit.
Google then lists the businesses found by GoogleMaps and then all the following first page entries relate to Stow-on-the Wold.
I don't know how many tourists turning up at Heathrow starting a tour of Britain will know that Stow of Wedale is different from Stow-in-the-Wold, unfortunately a much more likely destination. I therefore think a regional designation would be preferable - what about Stow (Scotland)?

 

[me123]

There has also been complaints in the metro

http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=23853&stc=1&d=1442265011

To quote the complainer in this article:

At peak time in the morning, [Scotrail] is sending a four carriage train empty down to the Borders but only a two carriage train up to Edinburgh and the train is packed..

.

He has conveniently decided not to tell us at what exact time he is traveling. Do people realise the practicalities of working these branch lines? Every service that comes up from the Borders has to go down there in the first place! So the four car train going down looks quiet at the moment, but could be just as heavily loaded on its return journey to Edinburgh.

Still, you have to feel sorry for the poor wee lamb, standing all the way from Newcraighall. For all of ten minutes. Bless. :roll:
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on the subject of overcrowding , late trains etc well !!! of course it will settle down soon but scotrail should have been better prepared for what was obviously going to be a busy service in the first few weeks

As I've mentioned before Scotrail have to pretty much guess how many people are going to be on each train as they've got no data. Scotrail already operate busy trains across the country and to strengthen every Borders service to 6 cars (as some seem to be expecting) is simply not feasible. You can't decimate existing services to run (potentially) empty trains on a new service. Your existing commuters won't stand for it and will vote with their feet.

They'll work it out soon, once they have the data to let them make a more educated approach to their planning. Once they know what loads to expect in the long run, they can fine-tune their diagrams to get the seats onto the services where they're needed.

 

[duncanp]

They are already having problems with overcrowding and people being unable to board

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-34255933


ScotRail is adding extra carriages to some Borders Railway services after complaints of passengers being unable to board trains and overcrowding.
A number of customers have raised concerns about the two-carriage provision on the line.
ScotRail said it had tried to allow for the "novelty factor" of the Edinburgh to Tweebank route but the level of interest had been "remarkable".
It said it was looking at doubling carriage numbers at some times.
Passengers posting on social media said they had been "packed like sardines" or unable to board some services at all.
The company said it was doing its best to try to tackle that situation.
'Best use'
However, it said the demand in recent days - particularly from families "making a day of it" at weekends - had been considerable.
A spokeswoman said: "We are continuing to monitor passenger numbers so we can tailor how to make best use of the carriages available to us.
"For example, we may have found a way to temporarily double the number of carriages on a Sunday, and aim to do the same on Saturdays during peak times.
"We are also planning to add carriages in the short term to one particularly busy service, the 16:24 from Edinburgh - Tweedbank which is key for commuters."
She added that the route was going to be very popular with "commuters and leisure travellers alike" and ScotRail remained committed to achieving the best balance so that customers had an "enjoyable experience".

 

[Blindtraveler]

BBC Scotland News Online reporting Scotrails commitment to add coaches where doable with services at weekends plus the 16:24 Waverley>Tweedbank being mentioned in particular.
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Question though here is Peter is doubtless being robbed to pay Paul here, so who is losing out? These units must come from somewhere.

 

[me123]

I don't know the diagrams well enough, but it could potentially be other (lighter loaded) Borders services that are losing out for the 16:24? Or, since the 16:24 has been specifically mentioned, they could simply be putting out another train that wasn't being used in the rush hour anyway? Obviously has an impact on maintenance etc, though, if they're doing that.

 

[backontrack]

Question though here is Peter is doubtless being robbed to pay Paul here, so who is losing out? These units must come from somewhere.

Inverness.

So, basically, the Inverness units (refurbished to serve the Far Northerners' needs) have been sent down to the Borders, and the Far Northerners are receiving grotty old Haymarket trains.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[47271]

Now, if only Scotrail had another four 170s to work with then this would all be a lot more manageable overall!

 

[OxtedL]

Inverness.

So, basically, the Inverness units (refurbished to serve the Far Northerners' needs) have been sent down to the Borders, and the Far Northerners are receiving grotty old Haymarket trains.

Hope that answers your question.

He is asking specifically what trains the carriages in question have been taken off, not what depot they come from, if that is the information you are trying to provide.

 

[adrock1976]

Could the Fife loop loco hauled set do an additional earlier run so as to transfer those 158s that normally work the loop services to the Borders route?

I think it would free up 2 units for strengthening Borders services, and no other diagrams that run as 2 units coupled together would see a reduction in capacity.

 

[Observer]

Could the Fife loop loco hauled set do an additional earlier run so as to transfer those 158s that normally work the loop services to the Borders route?

I think it would free up 2 units for strengthening Borders services, and no other diagrams that run as 2 units coupled together would see a reduction in capacity.

It'd need another 68 to top and tail it. DRS shouldn't have difficulty in doing that though. Use both sets and that's more units freed up.

 

[DunsBus]

My understanding was that Wedale translated as Holy Valley and thus specifically related to Stow as it was a traditional pilgrimage site.

The historic link of the Kirk in Stow to the bishop of St Andrews was also the reason Stow was located in Midlothian despite being on the wrong side of the watershed.

A few years ago I almost got married in Stow so visited the church quite a few times. Ended up getting married in Yarrow instead which was the parish of David Steel's father for another Borders Rail link.

The old county of Midlothian stretched down as far south as Bowland, four miles NW of Galashiels. Stow's parish itself actually straddled two counties - Midlothian and Selkirkshire - with the bulk of the parish being in the former.

Although Stow has been administratively in the Borders since May 1975, its postal address was Stow, Midlothian, until 1996 and it's still part of Midlothian for land registration purposes. I believe that until up until 1975 and the transfer of the area south of the watershed into the Borders, Midlothian County Council paid Gala Academy to send pupils from Stow and its neighours Fountainhall and Heriot to there instead of having them trek up to Gorebridge.

These days Stow has a Galashiels postcode (TD1) and a Lauder dialling code (01578) while its local radio comes from Galashiels and its television from Glasgow (BBC) and Gateshead (ITV). There are still plenty of visible reminders of its past, though. A number of the lampposts on side streets date from Stow's Midlothian days along with several street name plates which can be found thoughout the village. These street name signs would have been green on cream originally and are now black on white. And the three blocks of council houses which overlook Stow station were erected by the old Midlothian County Council.

OK, history lesson over.

 

[backontrack]

These days Stow has a Galashiels postcode (TD1) and a Lauder dialling code (01578) while its local radio comes from Galashiels and its television from Glasgow (BBC) and Gateshead (ITV).

Does it not even receive STV?

 

[overthewater]

Does it not even receive STV?

No the hills block out the transmitters from the central belt. Border TV covers the area. Don't worry it does carry addition Scottish programmes

 

[DunsBus]

No the hills block out the transmitters from the central belt. Border TV covers the area. Don't worry it does carry addition Scottish programmes

The Stow relay on Stagebank Hill, which overlooks the village from the west, wasn't built until 1981 and I believe it's line-fed from the Lauder relay, five miles away to the east and built at the same time.

Before 1981 you either had to take your chance and rely on pot luck to get a picture of any sort in Stow, or have British Relay installed. This service gave you a choice of both Border and STV until Channel 4 started, when the STV option was dropped to make way for it despite much local protest.
Nearby Fountainhall gets STV for terrestrial TV and Border via Sky, while Heriot is STV with a few houses getting Border. It's all a bit of a mess, to be honest - the hills and valleys dictate whether you get one or the other and I've seen some adjacent houses with aerials facing in different directions.
The Border Scottish opt-out, incidentally, is nothing special: just a couple of token local-interest programmes and that's it!

 

[Altnabreac]

Does it not even receive STV?

The poor folk of Borders and Dumfries & Galloway don't get as much Taggart as the rest of Scotland as they receive Border TV instead of STV along with Cumbria.

Makes it trickier at election time for stations to achieve the right balance as SNP party political broadcasts have to be shown but also in England UKIP are classified as a major party (minor in Scotland) so get more Broadcasts.

So Border TV has to show more PPBs than anywhere else.

 

[ainsworth74]

So Border TV has to show more PPBs than anywhere else.

Well, at least they now have a railway they can use to escape such a horrible fate!

 

[Blindtraveler]

He is asking specifically what trains the carriages in question have been taken off, not what depot they come from, if that is the information you are trying to provide.

Correct.
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Now, if only Scotrail had another four 170s to work with then this would all be a lot more manageable overall!

Agreed, and given peek time E and G trains were short formed before last week the chances of this now are so much higher and I personally believe Scotrails whole DMU plans for years to come need rethinking.

 

[Altnabreac]

Correct.
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Agreed, and given peek time E and G trains were short formed before last week the chances of this now are so much higher and I personally believe Scotrails whole DMU plans for years to come need rethinking.

Once the first AT200s arrive things will be much better.

There will be a continuing shortage for the next 14 months or so. However December 2016 and the Falkirk High electrification will be live and the new 321s should be in use in Lanarkshire, freeing up 380s for use on Edinburgh - Glasgow and the acute DMU shortage is solved. Not great until then though.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Point is we never had and shouldnt have such a serious shortage in the 1st place.

 

[47271]

Correct.
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Agreed, and given peek time E and G trains were short formed before last week the chances of this now are so much higher and I personally believe Scotrails whole DMU plans for years to come need rethinking.

I see the 'Scotrail Turbostars to Southern' thread is also getting updated to this end.

It wouldn't be so bad if they had the wit, as well as the physical capacity, to strengthen formations in the face of exceptional demand.

I'm hearing things about the failure to plan for volumes wishing to travel from Edinburgh to Inverness for the CT v Hearts game last Friday evening. Granted a stupid time for a big(ish) football match, but the drunken, and general, overcrowding on the 1334 ex Waverley was a picture apparently. And I'm not off topic: this was passed on to me by some people who had travelled up to Perthshire from Tweedbank, and were quite happy with the space provided BEFORE they got to Edinburgh.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Given the best way IMO to suffer nearly 4hrs on a 170 to the Highlands on any day of the week is in a state of mild intoxication I can well cunger up in my mind the sort of Carnage abord this train, the 10:36 also. The whole situation at present is the best advert for car ownership or the coach we've seen up here for years.

Say what you like about First, but Scotrail was 1 of the Aces in their pack and Im missing them, despite my initial positivitty about Abellios Win of the contract.

 

[47271]

I am off topic now, but to be fair to Abellio, nothing quite compares with my experience of First's similar total failure to plan for trying to get from Aberdeen to Glasgow on the day of one of the Take That concerts at Hampden in 2011. I ended up driving the whole way and back (it wasn't a difficult decision once I considered my likely fellow travellers) and getting a full refund on the ticket.

That said, and this may be considered to be a controversial view here, I've always been more worried about Abellio's ability to deliver on Scotrail than I have on Serco with the Sleeper.

I base this only on the truly shocking worn out and filthy condition of the stock (365s I think) they use and I've seen occasionally between King's Cross and Cambridge. I don't think I've ever experienced quite such a generally negligent attitude to the passenger environment on a pricey express service.

Haymarket 158 seat cushions, a problem dating back well before First even, are a very specific backside related exception obviously...

 

[Blindtraveler]

I understand, although may be wrong that other than 170s and the now X Inverness 158s, Scotrail have I believe been mainly sending the X Wessex and SWT units to the borders for the purpose of the seats. NX Fitted the said buttocks breakers to all the 158s and within 1 or 2 years they were in a sad state.they'd have done better not to reseat them. Id rather have a Leeds Based Northern Rail unit than a Haymarket SR one.

With regards to Serco VS Abellio, much of a muchness I think, having now used both.