Borders Railway - Now Open

[zuriblue]

The Waverley should have been rebuilt as a trunk route.

No that would have been a Jumbo undertaking.

 

[HowardGWR]

No that would have been a Jumbo undertaking.

I think the Scottish government are blowing their own trumpet too much, as it is, about just a little branch line..

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It's called value engineering, the scheme would have never got off the ground if it had been to a higher specification. Be grateful for what we have.

I get the value engineering, but most of the track in the video looks like it's been put in the centre of the double track bed. Wouldn't it at least have made sense to put it to one side, so that in the event that double-tracking is required at some point in the future, the existing track doesn't then have to be ripped up again?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would suggest that for a single track railway to justify the cost of electrification then it would need to be carrying a lot of passengers - so many in fact, that it would warrant doubling.

You mean like the Windermere branch?

(Yes, I know it's not quite the same situation, as leaving that single track line unelectrified would leave a diesel island and a lot of diesel-running running under the wires).

 

[edwin_m]

You mean like the Windermere branch?

(Yes, I know it's not quite the same situation, as leaving that single track line unelectrified would leave a diesel island and a lot of diesel-running running under the wires).

Your explanation supplies the reason. Electrifying the short and easy Windermere branch removes a lot of diesel running under the wires (obviously depending how many through services it gets). Electrifying the Borders railway would remove running under the wires only for the few miles of existing electrification at the Edinburgh end, since no trains are planned to run through onto any other electrified route. So the amount of DMU running removed per mile of electrification is much more for Windermere.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I get the value engineering, but most of the track in the video looks like it's been put in the centre of the double track bed. Wouldn't it at least have made sense to put it to one side, so that in the event that double-tracking is required at some point in the future, the existing track doesn't then have to be ripped up again?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You mean like the Windermere branch?

(Yes, I know it's not quite the same situation, as leaving that single track line unelectrified would leave a diesel island and a lot of diesel-running running under the wires).

Question asked, question answered

 

[fgwrich]

I get the value engineering, but most of the track in the video looks like it's been put in the centre of the double track bed. Wouldn't it at least have made sense to put it to one side, so that in the event that double-tracking is required at some point in the future, the existing track doesn't then have to be ripped up again?

Sadly it has. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pleased to see the Borders Railway finally come to fruition, but disappointed in the Dynamic Loop near Stow being reduced in length, and even more disappointed to see the amount of track which has been centred - not least on the Northern Section where there are aspirations to run 4TPH to Gorebridge. The track through Eskbank being a prime example of the former Double Track layout being reduced to single with the new track running down the centreline of the former double, and concrete beams/troughs shoring up the former stone platform walls either side. Or both viaducts through Gala which are both Single. I know this subject comes up time and time again, but I feel that there's doing a job on the cheap to get it done quicker and cheaper, or doing a job to last a lot longer and to be more capable of future proofing.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I'm very pleased to I know this subject comes up time and time again, but I feel that there's doing a job on the cheap to get it done quicker and cheaper, or doing a job to last a lot longer and to be more capable of future proofing.

It's the same old story; Penny wise, pound foolish. To cut costs, the Ebbw Vale Branch was re-opened as a single line for most of its length. Now it is being restored to double at considerable cost. New structures, which date from this recently re-instated line, are having to be moved and replaced at considerable cost. When will they ever learn?

 

[Pinza-C55]

Sadly it has. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pleased to see the Borders Railway finally come to fruition, but disappointed in the Dynamic Loop near Stow being reduced in length, and even more disappointed to see the amount of track which has been centred - not least on the Northern Section where there are aspirations to run 4TPH to Gorebridge. The track through Eskbank being a prime example of the former Double Track layout being reduced to single with the new track running down the centreline of the former double, and concrete beams/troughs shoring up the former stone platform walls either side. Or both viaducts through Gala which are both Single. I know this subject comes up time and time again, but I feel that there's doing a job on the cheap to get it done quicker and cheaper, or doing a job to last a lot longer and to be more capable of future proofing.

I don't know whether it was here but someone mentioned that although the bridge under the A7 at Falahill was built only for a single track, the road deck was made wide enough for a dual carriageway !

 

[najaB]

I agree it's disappointing that the Borders Line has been cut back andbuilt the way it has, but it's better a single-track railway than a two-track plan.

 

[Railsigns]

Speeded-up cab ride video showing almost the entire route, south to north (Tweedbank to Shawfair):

https://vimeo.com/132948397

 

[muddythefish]

Sadly it has. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pleased to see the Borders Railway finally come to fruition, but disappointed in the Dynamic Loop near Stow being reduced in length, and even more disappointed to see the amount of track which has been centred - not least on the Northern Section where there are aspirations to run 4TPH to Gorebridge. The track through Eskbank being a prime example of the former Double Track layout being reduced to single with the new track running down the centreline of the former double, and concrete beams/troughs shoring up the former stone platform walls either side. Or both viaducts through Gala which are both Single. I know this subject comes up time and time again, but I feel that there's doing a job on the cheap to get it done quicker and cheaper, or doing a job to last a lot longer and to be more capable of future proofing.

Short-term expediency. It's infuriating.

And when passengers figures exceed all expectations and they need to double the line to increase capacity, they'll say it's too expensive because of the need to shift the exisiting track.

 

[HowardGWR]

It'll be a sight more than shifting the track. The video on the newsletter gave a more daunting view of what would need to be done than I ever imagined. The stretch through Galashiels is a case of force majeure due the road builders taking some of the space, but the cutting stretches elsewhere left me puzzled. Given that originally there was a double track space, it seems that they deliberately narrowed the cutting and then erected gabions against what looked like filled in slopes.

Anyone got some info on why that was done?

Also, the new over-bridges purposely made to single track width seemed a perverse move. It looked just as easy (perhaps easier) to have had wider ones.

 

[DasLunatic]

Health and safety, probably. NR's trying to reduce the risk of the bridges collapsing.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Just saw this http://www.gwra.co.uk/2015julcat.php item 227 page 10

Mod note: North British Railway gold plated half-hunter presentation Pocket Watch on an auction site.

 

[najaB]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere. The Scotsman is moaning about Scotland's railway again, this time with a claim that the Highlands will lose all their refurbished 158s to the Borders Line.

RAIL passengers in the north of Scotland can expect to travel in “inferior, outdated” carriages once the new Border railway opens, it has been claimed.

Union officials and politicians, as well as some rail staff in the Highlands, believe that the most up-to-date carriages currently used on north rail lines are to be switched to the Borders to “tart up” the new operation when it is launched in September.

Abellio ScotRail has admitted that only one of its fleet of trains on the Borders Railway will be upgraded in time for Britain’s longest line re-opening.

However, last night a spokeswoman could not confirm the controversial transfer of carriages.

 

[thealexweb]

Some people in Scotland are clearly so out of touch. If it was not for its crazy high rail subsidies we have here the Borders railway would be opening with similar stock to the Clitheroe, Todmorden Curve, etc reopening. I honestly cannot believe they are turning their noses up at Class 158s even in an unrefurbished state.

 

[alexf380]

Inverness based units have been working "south" diagrams for years, even before they were refurbished. It's just the way the diagrams work and, I'm sure, will continue to work for the foreseeable future.

 

[oldman]

I honestly cannot believe they are turning their noses up at Class 158s even in an unrefurbished state.

The Borders people aren't objecting to 158s. The moaning is from folk in the North (and of course Mick Cash) that they may lose their good 158s to the Borders and get rubbish 158s instead.

Does anyone know if there is the slightest truth in this story?

 

[najaB]

Does anyone know if there is the slightest truth in this story?

I would think only limited truth (if any) since it would mean transferring RETB-equipped 158s down south, and fitting portable equipment to the 158s that transfer up North.

 

[thealexweb]

The Borders people aren't objecting to 158s. The moaning is from folk in the North (and of course Mick Cash) that they may lose their good 158s to the Borders and get rubbish 158s instead.

Does anyone know if there is the slightest truth in this story?

The community rail group of the Borders has been very vocal about the 158s, I cannot remember their group's exact name however.

 

[Techniquest]

If they don't want 158s on their railway, then let's rip it all up and put it somewhere where trains of any sort would be welcome! I know in my area a railway with even a 142 would be welcome.

Let's be honest, if you had the choice, which would you rather have out of these two?

*For the sight impaired and mobile readers, the first image is of Y876 PWT (Optare Solo) and the second of a Class 158*

20140731_063243 by Julian Whitby, on Flickr

158725 at Inverness by Julian Whitby, on Flickr

I know which I'd rather have (the Class 158 for the sake of clarity). Mind you, I'd also rather have this:

*Photo of 37401 at Aberdeen*

37401 stabled at Aberdeen by Julian Whitby, on Flickr

Yep, I couldn't help using my own photos to demonstrate my point!

 

[Ploughman]

There is one other solution.

Send them some Pacers, then the moaning about 158's will disappear.

 

[Techniquest]

There is one other solution.

Send them some Pacers, then the moaning about 158's will disappear.

There is that too. Ex-Merseyrail 142s as well. No ex-ATN ones permitted up there, bench seats or worse only!

 

[fegguk]

I don't think its unreasonable to expect Scotrail to make sure the Borders Railway gets of to a good start by having the refurbished trains that were promised, so that peoples experience of travel on the new railway is a good as it can be. It important that it gets of to a flying start something the Campaign for Borders Rail is keen it see happen for obvious reasons. People in the Highlands will have to put up with the trains they havie been happy to use until very recently for a few more months. It is not as if they are getting a rail replacement bus service that the Borders has had for the last 47 years.

Most of what is in the Scotmas article is an attempt to create a story out of nothing and spice it with rent a quotes from the usual axe grinders seeking to make some political capital out of nothing however cheaply.

 

[fgwrich]

Being fair for a moment here, and without the resorting to give them pacers to see how bad they are stuff (different franchise, different area of the country really), I can understand why ScotRail are interested in doing this temporary stock shuffle. The Borders Railway will be as scenic as the Far North Lines, and for the start of service would be rather nice to have a fairly smart and presentable train to help capitalise on the lines scenic nature while still being able to offer a decent service to the line. The other fact is that the Haymarket Set refurbishment is running late - So they will get their 158s back when Haymarket's come back on stream. And they do need it though, I would say that the best of all the refurbished 158s in the country are the 'Inverness' Sets, while ScotRail also has some of the worst in the Haymarket fleets too - the ex Central Trains, Ex South West Trains and Ex Wessex Trains units, all with varying degrees of poor internal state. Last time I went on one of the infamous and soon to be dropped 'Haymarket Eight' it was the (dis)pleasure of a Ex Wessex unit - Still with virtual Wessex interior and carpets, coupled up to a NEG NX ScotRail 158. Poor and broken Chapman Seating or Poor suffering Richmond Seating and no working Air Con. Both complete with hints of Regional Railways in them too. Hmmm.

Inverness 158
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46341292@N05/7125064849/

Richmond 158
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3714288275/
Or if you prefer with the lights on to see how drab they are internally.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barberbus/6690427337/

Going slightly further (threadbend) off topic - has anything come through of ScotRails Haymarket 158 refurbishment plans yet - is there anything to see on the net?

 

[thenorthern]

Wasn't the borders railway meant to be electrified in the original plans? What a waste electrifying to Newcraighall with catenary that won't be used.

Seriously though Class 158s are fairly decent units which I think would fit the line perfectly given its linespeed.

 

[iain-j]

Wasn't the borders railway meant to be electrified in the original plans? What a waste electrifying to Newcraighall with catenary that won't be used.

Seriously though Class 158s are fairly decent units which I think would fit the line perfectly given its linespeed.

Isn't Millerhill to be used for housing EMU's and to access Millerhill from Edinburgh you have to come of the ECML at Portobello junction and go through Newcraighall to get there.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If they don't want 158s on their railway, then let's rip it all up and put it somewhere where trains of any sort would be welcome.

20140731_063243 by Julian Whitby, on Flickr


Yep, I couldn't help using my own photos to demonstrate my point!

I like your most novel alternative mode of transport and can well imagine that there would be many local journeys made from Scotscalder to Hereford...

Perhaps the Laird will ensure that each journey carries enough packed hampers for the sustenance of one and all.

 

[me123]

That Scotsman article is, as usual, a load of nonsense. Rhoda Grant is showing about as much political talent as the rest of the Scottish Labour Party at the moment, and she really should be focussing on real issues rather than political point scoring about sub classes of train.

The reality of the 158s is that they write regularly turn up anywhere. The refurbished Inverness based units have been going around the Central belt for some time, and similarly the Haymarket based trains can be seen up North (I've had a few from Elgin in the not-too-distant past, although I don't know if they have RETB to go further North?). It will not cause "fury". I suspect that most people would barely notice. And, as has been said, the Haymarket based units are getting refurbished.

Non-story. Nothing to see.

 

[Railsigns]

Wasn't the borders railway meant to be electrified in the original plans? What a waste electrifying to Newcraighall with catenary that won't be used.

The line (Monktonhall - Millerhill - Portobello) was electrified as part of the ECML electrification, years before passenger trains started running to Newcraighall.