Borders Railway - Now Open

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I doubt if it would be that simple. When one sees the amount of work that has gone into reinforcing/rebuilding what looked (to my layman's eye at least) like reasonably stable earthworks in the sections which are being reopened, and then adding the drainage work, signalling, fencing and so on the cost would still be considerable. The trackwork is only part of the story.

What would be the envisaged passenger demand from those settlements that lie between Tweedbank and Carlisle?

 

[Altnabreac]

What major barriers, if any, exist between Hawick and Carlisle? Whether the route can be feasibly reopened with a ropey business case could hinge solely upon whether a single major infrastructure work would be needed, e.g. a reconstruction of a tunnel or a bridge. If reopening would be not much more than a matter of clearing the alignment, laying the ballast and running the rail-laying train down it then I can't see it being impossible.

Shankend Viaduct and Whitrope tunnel would be the major pieces of Infrastructure between Hawick and Carlisle. Both look to be in reasonable condition.

More of a problem would be a complete lack of population in the area or any feasible demand for passenger services whatsoever.

Long distance passenger services from Edinburgh would be much slower than via Carstairs even before we take into consideration any extension to HS2.

The only passenger link added by the service would be Central Borders - Carlisle which is far too small a market to ever justify reopening.

Cross border freight already has 3 options on WCML, ECML and G&SW all of which are faster and better located than the Waverley line.

Timber traffic from Kielder is sometimes mentioned but seems unlikely to justify a multi million pound investment.

All in all we can conclude Waverley line south of Hawick will NEVER reopen. End of.

 

[Chris125]

Shankend Viaduct and Whitrope tunnel would be the major pieces of Infrastructure between Hawick and Carlisle. Both look to be in reasonable condition.

Alas Whitope Tunnel is not in great nick and has suffered a roof collapse in recent years.

http://www.forgottenrelics.co.uk/tunnels/gallery/whitrope.html

Chris

 

[DaveNewcastle]

What major barriers, if any, exist between Hawick and Carlisle? . . . . .

An altitude of over 300 meters in crossing from the Teviot valley to the Liddesdale valley, which was formerly achieved with some tunnels, steep cuttings and a series of exceptionally tight bends (less than 400mtr radius).

 

[deltic08]

Travelled down the A7 today from Edinburgh to Yorkshire. Just south of the A720 at Sherrifhall on the up line was a machine and a small gang of orange men but I couldn't tell what they were trying to do. Both signals are planted here for going from double to single track.

My next stop was Newtongrange but nothing appeared different here from a few weeks ago.

At Falahill, the new road bridge although open still has road works. Many sets of traffic lights and chicanes from here to Fountainhall on the new A7 alignment.

At Heriot, men were putting an anti slip surface on the steps of the subway. Something needs doing to the water leaks through the concrete walls as the subway was an inch deep in water. The lady who lives in the now solitary cottage walked under whilst I was there. It turns out that the subway was built just for her costing thousands. She has now sold the cottage to Network Rail negating the need for the subway!! The subway bridge is wide enough for double track yet the bridges either side are just single track.

The tamper was in the old station site at Fountainhall working south. I wrongly assumed that welding of the joints would have been done first but they still have temporary yellow fishplate clamps.

The autoballaster was in Stow station dropping ballast in the four foot on the up line but travelling north. I assume it travelled south first dropping on the sleeper ends. The down line has no top ballast yet here. It was followed a few miles behind by the sweeper machine tidying the ballast.

There is still a gap without sleepers but sleepers were being laid by the usual method just north of Bowshank tunnel.

Bucholmeside in Gala is still untidy with large piles of bottom ballast and the station site is still being excavated but adjacent to Asda everything looks ready for bottom ballast. I don't think Gala would have been ready had track laying not been delayed for two weeks.

Torwoodlee to Currie Road looks a bit of a switchback as the bed dips under bridges and rises over new road bridges.

Chatting to an orange worker in Gala about the project, he said it is good news about Stage 2 isn't it. Asking what is Stage 2 he replied the continuation to Hawick. Does he know something we don't or just wishful thinking?

There was another photographer with me on the road bridge at Stow. He was vaguely familiar. We were at school together in the West Country in the 1960s and hadn't seen each other or spoken since.

 

[muddythefish]

Chatting to an orange worker in Gala about the project, he said it is good news about Stage 2 isn't it. Asking what is Stage 2 he replied the continuation to Hawick. Does he know something we don't or just wishful thinking?

Sounds like a scoop for an intrepid reporter !

 

[deltic08]

ASDA - all to do with how much money they came up with for the council to build their "wonderful" new road system

as far as the currie road bridge is concerned I feel so sorry for the elderly residents of the sheltered housing complex who did have a quite open outlook from the corner windows until that monstrosity of a bridge was built-----surely something more pleasing could have been designed

I am no train expert but if they decide to operate steam trains will they be able to get up enough steam to climb the gradient after halting in gala

Do you mean travelling to Tweedbank? If so then the trackbed dips down from Gala station to pass under Station Brae before climbing up and over Currie Road so shouldn't be a problem even with 10 on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sounds like a scoop for an intrepid reporter !

I would expect Paul Brownlee to know if true or not.

 

[cjt0131]

Do you mean travelling to Tweedbank? If so then the trackbed dips down from Gala station to pass under Station Brae before climbing up and over Currie Road so shouldn't be a problem even with 10 on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

as I said I am no train expert so if you think its ok for a steam engine then I take your word for it

what do you mean by " 10 on "

 

[deltic08]

as I said I am no train expert so if you think its ok for a steam engine then I take your word for it

what do you mean by " 10 on "

Pulling 10 coaches.

 

[fgwrich]

Unless the plans have been changed a little for it since, I cant see the new station in Gala proving popular in the winter (It'll be usefull!) with just 1 bus shelter and the access by a presumably pedestrian controlled crossing across the A7. I know there's a new ''Transport Interchange'' opening up across the road where presumably they will want people to wait, but giving them the inconvenience of having to cross the road to get to the station. Small & Functional, but at the expense of covered waiting areas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQn7EEjDnRI

 

[najaB]

Unless the plans have been changed a little for it since, I cant see the new station in Gala proving popular in the winter (It'll be usefull!) with just 1 bus shelter and the access by a presumably pedestrian controlled crossing across the A7.

There's not really room for anything more given the tight space.

As long as there's plenty of notice it shouldn't take too long to get across the road from the Interchange - I'd bet it's shorter than the distance from the waiting room to platforms 1 to 5 at Euston.

 

[clc]

A footbridge between the interchange building and the platform would have been nice to have.

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

There's not really room for anything more given the tight space.

As long as there's plenty of notice it shouldn't take too long to get across the road from the Interchange - I'd bet it's shorter than the distance from the waiting room to platforms 1 to 5 at Euston.

This is a question I have actually posed, in the comments section, on the Borders Railway Youtube channel for the series 4 teaser trailer. This issue has been raised with Ewan Doyle, the SBC Project Management Team Leader. He will be giving an answer in the next series, starting Jan 12th.

 

[najaB]

This is a question I have actually posed, in the comments section, on the Borders Railway Youtube channel for the series 4 teaser trailer. This issue has been raised with Ewan Doyle, the SBC Project Management Team Leader. He will be giving an answer in the next series, starting Jan 12th.

It would be interesting if they can in some way link the approach of a train to the pedestrian crossing lights. I've no idea how busy the road is, but I can't imagine anything more enraging than missing your train because the lights wouldn't change!

 

[fegguk]

The new station and interchange features in this latest video.

http://youtu.be/_QaHH3zXpMY

 

[QueensCurve]

I've probably mentioned this before, but I spent many childhood weekends on the platforms there, when "Cross Country" services had loco hauled portions from Edinburgh and Glasgow joining/ splitting there. It was great at the time.

I frequently travelled on Anglo-Scottish InterCity in the early 80s and it was fun. Fixed formation trains and sealed windows that you can't look out of take a lot of the pleaure away.

But given how services now operate, you could knock the whole thing down and remodel to allow much faster straighter alignments - grade separated junctions would probably be too ambitious, but you'd shave a couple of minutes off long distance services.

Now that there is no portion working and the present Carstairs South/East curve slows trains to 15mph it would make a lot of sense to reopen the queen's curve (I didn't know it was so called) rather than try to improve the present layout.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've been doing a bit of digging around.

Fortunately, the National Library of Scotland has a comprehensive set of maps of the area from the late 19th and early 20th century

maps.nls.uk

The 1905 map show the line as closed, but the line to Bankhead station as open.

The 1885 map shows the "express" line as being open.

That would suggest that the closure of the express route and realignment of the route to Edinburgh was necessary as a consequence of opening the Bankhead route.

If I've got it right, there should be a couple of maps attached...

Interesting to learn it had closed so early. I had suspected it might have been part of British Rail "rationalisation" at the time of electrification in the early 70s.

 

[92002]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---[/size]

Carstairs due to be re-modelled this next Summer

Should be complete in July ish.

 

[fegguk]

My last video progress up date for 2014.

Expect more track laying in January, the station and other infrastructure developing by the summer and trains you can actually go on 2015. Remember to buy a ticket

http://youtu.be/5D0t-mPJWFc

 

[Tobbes]

Fegguk,

Brilliant - thanks so much for taking the time to record this for those of us far away - I'm very grateful.

Should I be surprised that there are only single lamp signals? I'd have thought that they'd be using two lamp (ie, four aspect) signals.

Happy New Year!

Tobbes

 

[Ploughman]

Is there any info on the exact reason for the withdrawl of the sleeper laying equipment?
I know that it was the result of a worker being injured, just wondering as to the type of machine in use and what alternatives can be considered.

 

[deltic08]

My last video progress up date for 2014.

Expect more track laying in January, the station and other infrastructure developing by the summer and trains you can actually go on 2015. Remember to buy a ticket

http://youtu.be/5D0t-mPJWFc

Many thanks yet again. You can't keep away can you even when all the workforce has gone away for two weeks holiday. What are you going to do come September? I hope for your sake extension to Melrose, Newton or even Hawick is approved to keep you occupied!!

 

[QueensCurve]

[Carstairs Remodeling]Should be complete in July ish.

Any more details, programme, drawings, track layout, speeds etc?

 

[clc]

My last video progress up date for 2014.

Expect more track laying in January, the station and other infrastructure developing by the summer and trains you can actually go on 2015. Remember to buy a ticket

http://youtu.be/5D0t-mPJWFc

Look forward to seeing more of your updates next year. Cheers.

 

[Techniquest]

Any more details, programme, drawings, track layout, speeds etc?

Funnily enough I was thinking the same! I've not heard of any plans to vastly improve the curve at Carstairs, although I must say it's about time it was done!

 

[QueensCurve]

Funnily enough I was thinking the same! I've not heard of any plans to vastly improve the curve at Carstairs, although I must say it's about time it was done!

Apologies to harp on about Carstairs in a Borders forum, but I managed to find the link at:-

http://nearyou.imeche.org/docs/defa...stairs-s-c-project---sean-malone.ppt?sfvrsn=5 (opens .ppt file directly)

As suspected, the main connection to the north/east curve is moved to the north of the station, the up main moves to the present down platform and the down main moves down one. This obviates the need for the connection across a superelevated up fast

The south/east curve becomes a single track and speads on the edinburgh routes generally become 40/50 mph.

still a major capacity constraint at the east junction though but.

 

[snowball]

Thanks for that. What are "BV" switches?

 

[Bald Rick]

Switches are badged A to H, with A being the sharpest turnout angle, H being the shallowest, and thus the higher the letter, then usually the higher the turnout speed.

The V indicates the rail is positioned vertically through the switch. On most sections of plain line, rail is inclined slightly towards the centre of the track, as it gives a better wheel / rail interface, and thus better riding and wear properties.

A BV switch is normally 15 or 20 mph depending on the crossing angle.

 

[deltic08]

Switches are badged A to H, with A being the sharpest turnout angle, H being the shallowest, and thus the higher the letter, then usually the higher the turnout speed.

The V indicates the rail is positioned vertically through the switch. On most sections of plain line, rail is inclined slightly towards the centre of the track, as it gives a better wheel / rail interface, and thus better riding and wear properties.

A BV switch is normally 15 or 20 mph depending on the crossing angle.

Perhaps someone in the know can kindly explain the following?

In 2012 a 20mph trailing crossover was replaced outside Harrogate station with a 15mph model. Trains leaving Harrogate for Leeds from the wrong side now stop accelerating before the platform end and coast for about six coach lengths to the crossing and then over the crossing until four coaches are clear before accelerating again. By accelerating continuously the last coach of a four coach Pacer train could be travelling at 30mph. Why replace a 20mph crossover with 15mph and not 30mph? I thought improvement was the aim at every renewal especially in this case beneath a wide bridge.

 

[najaB]

Perhaps someone in the know can kindly explain the following? ... Why replace a 20mph crossover with 15mph and not 30mph? I thought improvement was the aim at every renewal especially in this case beneath a wide bridge.

I'm not by any means someone in the know, but my guess would be to use a shorter overall crossover so that a signal could be repositioned.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-30681134

A railway halt should be provided at Heriot on the new Borders railway line, according to a local councillor.

Sandy Aitchison said villagers "deserve" extra transport provision.

He said: "I see no reason why the future programming of the timetable could not allow a stop at Heriot to allow passengers to join it.

"The disruption in Heriot has been huge for the last year or so, to no advantage really to the people who live there."

From September, trains are scheduled to operate between Edinburgh and Tweedbank.

In the Borders, they will stop at Stow, Galashiels and Tweedbank.

Mr Aitchison added: "It would seem sensible as pressure comes on development in the future in Heriot that we tie that in to the transport systems not only the bus, not only the A7, but the railway system as provided."

The campaign (if there is indeed one here) seems a little belated. Stow was rather better timed, submitting evidence 10 years ago. Has there been a similar campaign on behalf of Heriot?