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Border protocols at "Schengen" borders

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Wolfie

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This could easily have been solved by simply requiring more detailed checks at the border to cater for the handful of people still using them.



Indeed. The UK is part of a tiny club that includes Russia, Ukraine and Belarus as not accepting EU ID cards, which is just bonkers. The only real threat came from paper ID cards, which could easily be dealt with by making it clear that anyone using it would be subjected to a full secondary check.
Your "full secondary check" wouldn't stop someone arriving at a UK port with a fake EU paper ID and then claiming asylum.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I suspect it appealed to a certain type of voter

An immigration officer told me that corruption in two specific EU countries (Lithuania and Bulgaria) meant ID cards could be purchased (usually by Russians and Belarussians) for €1000 or so. I suggested at the time that perhaps then we don't accept ID cards from these countries? Hardly rocket science.
The EU would not permit selective acceptance of ID cards.

Oh and there were media reports a few years ago about bulk thefts of blank ID cards from local government premises in Italy.
 
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Cloud Strife

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Your "full secondary check" wouldn't stop someone arriving at a UK port with a fake EU paper ID and then claiming asylum.

Given that a paper ID would be subjected to both the ETA and an intense check by the train operator, it's highly unlikely that a fake one would slip through. With UKBF on video call and the ability to say "no" to anyone who didn't come across as kosher, it's every bit as secure as having UK border controls on departure.

By the way, there was at least some precedent for ID cards not being accepted: Greek citizens who had the old Greek-only cards also couldn't use them for travel. And now, all EU ID cards that don't meet the ICAO Doc 9303 standard will also be invalidated en masse in 2026 anyway.

For me, it's just an excuse. The UK could accept them easily, not least because EU citizens can fly into Dublin on them anyway.
 

Wolfie

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Given that a paper ID would be subjected to both the ETA and an intense check by the train operator, it's highly unlikely that a fake one would slip through. With UKBF on video call and the ability to say "no" to anyone who didn't come across as kosher, it's every bit as secure as having UK border controls on departure.

By the way, there was at least some precedent for ID cards not being accepted: Greek citizens who had the old Greek-only cards also couldn't use them for travel. And now, all EU ID cards that don't meet the ICAO Doc 9303 standard will also be invalidated en masse in 2026 anyway.

For me, it's just an excuse. The UK could accept them easily, not least because EU citizens can fly into Dublin on them anyway.
Those are your views. All of the internal mood music in Government wholly disagrees with you based on actual practical experience. I retired from the civil service in a very interested department earlier this year.
 

Cloud Strife

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Those are your views. All of the internal mood music in Government wholly disagrees with you based on actual practical experience. I retired from the civil service in a very interested department earlier this year.

That would be entirely because of populism and not because of actual facts on the ground. If the UK was so serious about the issue, border controls would have been imposed on the Irish border. As it stands, there is absolutely no way to verify how long an EU ID card holder has actually been in the UK, and even the ETA will only require it to be linked to a passport, but not for it to actually be used for travel into the UK from Ireland.

EU ID cards are every bit as secure as passports.
 

Wolfie

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That would be entirely because of populism and not because of actual facts on the ground. If the UK was so serious about the issue, border controls would have been imposed on the Irish border. As it stands, there is absolutely no way to verify how long an EU ID card holder has actually been in the UK, and even the ETA will only require it to be linked to a passport, but not for it to actually be used for travel into the UK from Ireland.

EU ID cards are every bit as secure as passports.
The Home Office would beg, on an informed basis, to differ and, unlike you, their views count.

I'm pretty sure that if they had their way the Common Travel Area would be done away with. However there are very sound political reasons, not least the Good Friday Agreement, why that is unlikely to happen.

The UK and Ireland have a very close relationship on immigration matters.
 

Cloud Strife

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The Home Office would beg, on an informed basis, to differ and, unlike you, their views count.

They would say that, because it contributes to the charade of border security. Meanwhile, most of Europe can simply fly to Dublin and walk into the UK without being challenged, and indeed travel onwards.

I'm pretty sure that if they had their way the Common Travel Area would be done away with. However there are very sound political reasons, not least the Good Friday Agreement, why that is unlikely to happen.

Of course, but doing away with it is simply a no-go, and meanwhile there's an Irish-border sized gap in border security where EU ID cards can be used without any risk whatsoever.

The UK and Ireland have a very close relationship on immigration matters.

I wouldn't say very close. They don't even have a unified visa system, and I'd say that it's on the same level as UK-Gibraltar rather than on Schengen. Of course, UK Border Force and the Irish authorities do refuse travellers if it appears that they wouldn't be permitted to land in the other jurisdiction, but the fact that you can get through Dublin Airport by waving your EU ID highlights the sheer absurdity of not accepting EU ID cards. I'd estimate that my own EU ID card is only scanned about half the time in Dublin, as I'm simply waved through half the time.
 
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