Bootle docks: will the locks ever be replaced by a 12quays style floating pontoon?

[AHBD]

Given that Birkenhead's 12quays Liverpool-Belfast ferry service gets a floating pontoon rather than locks into docks, will Liverpool's own Bootle docks be able to the same ever? ...
ie
The new liverpool2 container dock is outside the Bootle lock system, is it feasable for any if the others such as the gladstone dock etc used by the Dublin-Liverpool ferrys to move outside the lock system?

 

[185]

I'd say it's more to do with capacity and efficiency. You'd only get one or two vessels onto a floating stage which is also often affected by heavy tidal surges on the Mersey.

The Mersey Docks system can accommodate 20 to 30 vessels simultaneously, often with direct access to the premises they need (eg, a grain boat pulls up next to the grain terminal), containers taken direct to the freightliner terminal, steady and secure with no messing around with thousands of lorries.

 

[AHBD]

Ok, thanks, but would one that could take two roro ferries (like 12quays) still be of interest to the dublin roro ferries ( Seatruck and the other one), if affordable, or perhaps not worth the expense?

 

[8A Rail]

May be directing your question to Peel Holdings who own both sides of the Mersey. Personally I think it is unlikely as you would need to consider access to both Gladstone and Langton Locks, as well as getting traffic to access the possible quay pontoon too were they would need to cross the dock waters. Also the internal docks remain very active with various ships using the various docks. I think Peel's priority is all to do with "Liverpool Two" and improving the facilities in and around that area.

 

[zwk500]

One issue is getting a suitable gradient at all states of the tidal range. Building a berth out into the Mersey that has sufficient depth at all states of the tides with a ramp that can rise and fall but remain within the permissible gradients won't be overly cheap.

 

[AHBD]

Would there be enough capacity at the new lsle of Man ferry terminal for the Dublin roro ferries to use it?

 

[zwk500]

Would there be enough capacity at the new lsle of Man ferry terminal for the Dublin roro ferries to use it?

From what is visible on the press photos it looks like it would be very short of capacity to marshal the lorries for the Liverpool-Dublin trade.

 

[AHBD]

Ok thanks, no go then.

EDITed to split. Which was automerged back....


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2023 ==

One last question,
If the Dublin-Liverpool roro ferries moved to a new terminal at/near birkenhead's 12 quays (preferably at a new 2 ferry floating pontoon but perhaps just dock with lock) would that take much traffic off the A5036 (which now has extra traffic from Liverpool2 container port, perhaps curtailing demands for a new road such as the previoysly proposed road thru Rimrose Park?

 

[zwk500]

The Stena Line terminal at Birkenhead (is this which you mean by Birkenhead 12 quays?) looks like it would be able to take the boat, but it's not clear if there would be space/time to handle the freight traffic smoothly. If not, they could build a new terminal nearer Tranmere docks, that would avoid the worst of traffic problems and there are potential quayside spaces that could be used, as well as existing berths in the river so it's clearly feasible.

However the cost of building a brand new terminal would be quite large, so if the dock itself isn't causing a problem that restricts the boat size it probably won't be worth the cost. The extra distance up the river would also offset any time saving from avoiding the locking through.

 

[AHBD]

The Stena Line terminal at Birkenhead (is this which you mean by Birkenhead 12 quays?) looks like it would be able to take the boat, but it's not clear if there would be space/time to handle the freight traffic smoothly. If not, they could build a new terminal nearer Tranmere docks, that would avoid the worst of traffic problems and there are potential quayside spaces that could be used, as well as existing berths in the river so it's clearly feasible.

However the cost of building a brand new terminal would be quite large, so if the dock itself isn't causing a problem that restricts the boat size it probably won't be worth the cost. The extra distance up the river would also offset any time saving from avoiding the locking through.

Thanks (yes 12quays is the area in Birkenhead I meant)
but
I was asking if a move to Birkenhead (and thus the M53 for traffic) for the Liverpool-Dublin roro ferries would reduce traffic on the A5036 enough to quell demands for a new big road to releave it in Liverpool?

 

[zwk500]

Thanks (yes 12quays is the area in Birkenhead I meant)
but
I was asking if a move to Birkenhead (and thus the M53 for traffic) for the Liverpool-Dublin roro ferries would reduce traffic on the A5036 enough to quell demands for a new big road to releave it in Liverpool?

I don't know Liverpool road traffic well enough to say, sorry.

 

[8A Rail]

Thanks (yes 12quays is the area in Birkenhead I meant)
but
I was asking if a move to Birkenhead (and thus the M53 for traffic) for the Liverpool-Dublin roro ferries would reduce traffic on the A5036 enough to quell demands for a new big road to releave it in Liverpool?

Straight answer to your question is NO. The Irish traffic on the Liverpool side of the docks is only a small percentage of the traffic generated by those docks. When you add in the Liverpool 2 Quay container traffic (which will increase), Royal Seaforth Dock container, grain, scrap and auto traffic, as well as other scrap, steel and misc traffic then it all adds up. What you may not realise there is container's that travels by road to and from Garston FLT and Ditton (Stobarts) too.

Additional trains may take a small percentage of the container traffic in due course, hence Peel Holdings have plans to lengthen the existing container lines at Seaforth FLT to accommodate 775m length trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2023 ==

The Stena Line terminal at Birkenhead (is this which you mean by Birkenhead 12 quays?) looks like it would be able to take the boat, but it's not clear if there would be space/time to handle the freight traffic smoothly. If not, they could build a new terminal nearer Tranmere docks, that would avoid the worst of traffic problems and there are potential quayside spaces that could be used, as well as existing berths in the river so it's clearly feasible.

However the cost of building a brand new terminal would be quite large, so if the dock itself isn't causing a problem that restricts the boat size it probably won't be worth the cost. The extra distance up the river would also offset any time saving from avoiding the locking through.

There are no docks at Tranmere. There is however the on river oil terminal which is beyond Cammell Lairds Shipyard but Essar who are based at Stanlow have plans to create a new river berth there for Hydrogen (see: https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/nor...-part-of-regions-burgeoning-hydrogen-industry).

 

[AHBD]

Thanks.