Booking Tickets in Advance for a Railcard

[Daimler]

A friend of mine wants to book in advance for some trips he'll be doing next week - he's going to buy a railcard on Monday morning, so will hold one for all his journeys, but doesn't have one yet. Will he be OK to book in advance saying he owns a railcard now?

 

[yorkie]

I think it would be unfair, and it could possibly unlawful, for TOCs to force a Railcard to be held in advance of actually using it. However I really don't know what the official ATOC policy on this matter is.

You can do it online, but you may be refused at a station (whether they are right or wrong to refuse I don't know)

 

[Daimler]

Cheers! He is booking online - it would be odd for it not to be permitted.

 

[martyn29]

at the station we have to see the railcard

 

[yorkie]

I think that's an unfair term, I'd expect a court to rule that unlawful.

"You must carry your Senior Railcard with you on any journey where you have bought discounted tickets with the Railcard. Therefore, if you buy discounted Railcard tickets before you receive your Railcard, you do this at your own risk." means that you CAN buy tickets BEFORE you are in possession of a Railcard.

 

[Ben]

I agree with Yorkie - the wording on this is pretty clear.

 

[Daimler]

Excellent! Thanks, I've been helping him avoid paying too much - he's visiting lots of friends at University over his half term.

 

[craigy68]

... you can purchase tickets with a railcard discount from either a station, fast machine, or online ... the rule is YOU MUST have it with you when you travel.

 

[janb]

For once I agree with Yorkie. I understand what Martyn is saying because I too have seen directives from TOCs saying that must see a railcard. Presumably because people have been caught without. However that isn't the station staffs fault, its the customers responsibility.

It gives a competitive advantage to the internet as well if you adhere to that, so you would be helping doing yourself out of a job.

 

[blacknight]

I think that's an unfair term, I'd expect a court to rule that unlawful.

"You must carry your Senior Railcard with you on any journey where you have bought discounted tickets with the Railcard. Therefore, if you buy discounted Railcard tickets before you receive your Railcard, you do this at your own risk." means that you CAN buy tickets BEFORE you are in possession of a Railcard.

Why would court rule so when to quote Rule 5 of railcard T&C "& when buying tickets you must show the railcard" seems clear cut in black & white

 

[yorkie]

Why would court rule so when to quote Rule 5 of railcard T&C "& when buying tickets you must show the railcard" seems clear cut in black & white

Here we go again.

I have quoted "in black and white" a rule that contradicts with that rule. In consumer law, if consumers are given contradictory laws, I believe that the one in favour of the consumer prevails.

It would also likely be ruled an unfair term, as nowhere does it state that a Railcard must be purchased in advance of travel if buying a ticket in advance.

It is likely that the statement in Rule 5 is intended only to apply for journeys for immediate travel where one passenger asks for one ticket for immediate travel where the seller believes that person is intending to use that ticket and has no other opportunity to obtain a railcard before actually travelling. In such a circumstance it is reasonable to insist on a railcard being seen. In many other circumstances it would be unreasonable, and I believe it would likely to be unlawful and perhaps even discriminatory. (e.g. say I am buying a ticket for next week for an elderly/disabled passenger. I AM allowed to buy it for them and I think I'd have good grounds to get you into trouble if you refused to sell me it, and believe me I would take it as far as I needed to take it.)

 

[evil_hippo]

In consumer law, if consumers are given contradictory laws, I believe that the one in favour of the consumer prevails.

That is correct.

 

[blacknight]

Here we go again.

I have quoted "in black and white" a rule that contradicts with that rule. In consumer law, if consumers are given contradictory laws, I believe that the one in favour of the consumer prevails.

It would also likely be ruled an unfair term, as nowhere does it state that a Railcard must be purchased in advance of travel if buying a ticket in advance.

It is likely that the statement in Rule 5 is intended only to apply for journeys for immediate travel where one passenger asks for one ticket for immediate travel where the seller believes that person is intending to use that ticket and has no other opportunity to obtain a railcard before actually travelling. In such a circumstance it is reasonable to insist on a railcard being seen. In many other circumstances it would be unreasonable, and I believe it would likely to be unlawful and perhaps even discriminatory. (e.g. say I am buying a ticket for next week for an elderly/disabled passenger. I AM allowed to buy it for them and I think I'd have good grounds to get you into trouble if you refused to sell me it, and believe me I would take it as far as I needed to take it.)

You are para phrasing rule 6 of T&C's which dont say anything about buying tickets merely what happens if you have a discounted ticket & have failed to carry your railcard what financially you are liable for.
If you take you view to the max then everyone can ask for the right to buy ticket with railcard discount without holding a railcard & taking potluck as to whether or not they are challenged onboard for TOC's to recover the debt. Thats a charter for fare evasion

 

[yorkie]

In that case, ticket machines are a "charter for fare evasion" as you call it, as are all websites that sell tickets, and so are Gatwick Express, Hull Trains and Grand Central and all stations without barriers.

What does a "charter for fare evasion" mean anyway?

 

[mumrar]

I think that's an unfair term, I'd expect a court to rule that unlawful

Do you? I'd have thought you may have mentioned it before now on other threads YAWN