Bombardier electrostars for Gatwick Express

[physics34]

"but with some reduction in the use of the older 455s by 2018"..whatever that means.

 

[Fincra5]

Also im so bored of Southern livery now (10 years old) that id rather see the grey and blue (as seen on some 319s) on the 377s and 455s.
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There are no plans to replace the (Southern) 313s for the length of the franchise.

The introduction of the 700s will make enough 377s surplus, for 25 to go to Southeastern and for some 455s to be retired....

Hardly worth the massive cost of relivering trains and creating new logos and uniforms with new logos on them etc.. just because you are bored of it!

Most of the 377/5s are going to Kings Lynn aren't they? So it would only release some 377/2s more than anything i'd have thought.

 

[Class377/5]

Hardly worth the massive cost of relivering trains and creating new logos and uniforms with new logos on them etc.. just because you are bored of it!

Most of the 377/5s are going to Kings Lynn aren't they? So it would only release some 377/2s more than anything i'd have thought.

19x 377/5 to Kings Lynn, allowing 7x dual voltage Electrostars back in the pool.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Which is one reason I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if Southern took the 442s cascaded from GatEx, to release other units with toilets for use on the Coastway services.

442s are unsuitable for Coastway. The station dwell times are too long.
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Depending on what state they're in, could SWTs take some of them on to strengthen services (or are all SWT services that use 455s already as long as they can physically be)?

SWT won't want DC motored 455s, they're converting their 455s to AC control equipment and motors.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Which is one reason I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if Southern took the 442s cascaded from GatEx, to release other units with toilets for use on the Coastway services.

442s are unsuitable for Coastway. The station dwell times are too long.

My writing isn't always crystal clear, sometimes you have to read carefully. Perhaps the bold I've added to my quote above will help.

In other words, I wasn't suggesting the 442s would be used on the Coastway. Persumably there are Brighton fasts that aren't GatEx which the 442s could be used on to free up 377s. I've been told in the past that there aren't quite enough Brighton fasts for that to work, but surely there's some other Southern services the 442s could work as well as Brighton services. Any fasts from London on the line via Three Bridges and Horsham, or via Three Bridges to Lewes ('Mainline East' and 'Mainline West' on their network map) for example?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

442s are unsuitable for Coastway. The station dwell times are too long.
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SWT won't want DC motored 455s, they're converting their 455s to AC control equipment and motors.

Would it be viable if SWT were to convert then to AC control?

 

[hwl]

My writing isn't always crystal clear, sometimes you have to read carefully. Perhaps the bold I've added to my quote above will help.

In other words, I wasn't suggesting the 442s would be used on the Coastway. Persumably there are Brighton fasts that aren't GatEx which the 442s could be used on to free up 377s. I've been told in the past that there aren't quite enough Brighton fasts for that to work, but surely there's some other Southern services the 442s could work as well as Brighton services. Any fasts from London on the line via Three Bridges and Horsham, or via Three Bridges to Lewes ('Mainline East' and 'Mainline West' on their network map) for example?

If you look at the recent TSGN off peak timetable consultation it looks like they are heading in the direction of the Brighton fasts becoming GatEx (387) and thameslink (700s) in the long term. Everything else has too many stops.

The 442s will also be unable to couple in emergency to any of the other stock operating on the BML in the future.

As 377/5 has frequently pointed out the freed up 377s will be going to help create more 4+3+3 10 car metro diagrams as less than half the peak metro trains that could be 10 car are 10 car.

Besides the 442s might find a new home between some power cars in Scotland.

There is also a possibility that the new BML timetable might need stock with decent acceleration and regenerative braking to make it work which rules out the 442s.

 

[physics34]

Hardly worth the massive cost of relivering trains and creating new logos and uniforms with new logos on them etc.. just because you are bored of it!

Most of the 377/5s are going to Kings Lynn aren't they? So it would only release some 377/2s more than anything i'd have thought.

true but many 377s are due a repaint even if they recieved a little touch up during the refresh
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If you look at the recent TSGN off peak timetable consultation it looks like they are heading in the direction of the Brighton fasts becoming GatEx (387) and thameslink (700s) in the long term. Everything else has too many stops.

The 442s will also be unable to couple in emergency to any of the other stock operating on the BML in the future.

As 377/5 has frequently pointed out the freed up 377s will be going to help create more 4+3+3 10 car metro diagrams as less than half the peak metro trains that could be 10 car are 10 car.

Besides the 442s might find a new home between some power cars in Scotland.

There is also a possibility that the new BML timetable might need stock with decent acceleration and regenerative braking to make it work which rules out the 442s.

yeh it seems the "Brighton Express" as we know it do not exist from December 2015. THey will be taken up by GatEx's.

 

[corfield]

It does seem as if the Electrostar fleet and subfleets (and generally the classes in the south) could be a bit all over the place if all the various mooted cascades (to the North, GW, SE, Anglia) occur.

With Siemens units on Thameslink, it does seem that an Electrostar variant would have made more sense there to fit in (logistics/training benefits from scales of efficiency?) with the huge 377 family across SN and SE; whilst the GW/Crossrail is almost entirely new territory for EMUs.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Besides the 442s might find a new home between some power cars in Scotland.

It will probably be quicker and easier to Chilternise the existing HST coaches than make the 442 cars work in an HST set.

 

[Class377/5]

It does seem as if the Electrostar fleet and subfleets (and generally the classes in the south) could be a bit all over the place if all the various mooted cascades (to the North, GW, SE, Anglia) occur.

With Siemens units on Thameslink, it does seem that an Electrostar variant would have made more sense there to fit in (logistics/training benefits from scales of efficiency?) with the huge 377 family across SN and SE; whilst the GW/Crossrail is almost entirely new territory for EMUs.

Not really as the Electrostar model wasn't offered for Thameslink, the Aventra was, which is just as compatible as a Desiro City is with an Electrostar. Retraining would have been required for staff with either offer.

The only Electrostar fleet that's going 'off patch' is the 387/1, but its not set in stone yet. The rest are stay with Southern & Southeastern, ie home turf.