Bombardier Derby at "30 year high"

[thenorthern]

Some good news apparently just seen on the local BBC East Midlands Today the number of new trains being built at Bombardier Derby is at a 30 year high. Of course 30 years ago it was 1990 and it was just after the plant was privatised.

I can't find anything online about it though.

Given the uncertainty over the Covid outbreak and the uncertainty about Brexit this is very good news for Derby and the rail industry.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Brilliant news if true.

 

[ainsworth74]

Is it news? There's not been any new orders won recently (I believe) they're just chewing through several thousand Aventra vehicles that have been on the books for a few years now. I suspect a slow news day at East Mids Today to be honest!

 

[43096]

Brilliant news if true.

Brilliant news if they actually delivered the new trains on time.

 

[thenorthern]

On BBC East Midlands Today there was a bit of caution about if the jobs will stay but according to them there are 5 live contracts and the management are optimistic.

I am glad that the plant is doing well though as 9 years ago with the Thameslink contract going to Siemens there was unease and talk of the plant closing for good.

 

[Journeyman]

You do have to wonder what'll happen when the current Aventra deliveries are complete, as a lot of relatively new rolling stock will be surplus and could be redeployed, and I doubt there will be much need for any other massive orders. Bombardier seem to be great at big runs of a standard product, but when it comes to more specialised stuff, they're not interested. Who else is likely to order dozens of Aventras in the near future?

 

[StephenHunter]

Southern's 455s might go in the next franchise. Logical choice for more Aventras.

 

[Journeyman]

Southern's 455s might go in the next franchise. Logical choice for more Aventras.

Yeah, those and the 313s, I suppose. Wonder what the timescales for that might be?

 

[supervc-10]

And what about the remaining Networkers? Don't think there's any plans at the moment to replace them at either Great Northern or South Eastern, but they're not going to last forever. Of course Great Northern already have Desiro City stock within GTR, so perhaps more likely to go the Siemens route.

 

[Journeyman]

And what about the remaining Networkers? Don't think there's any plans at the moment to replace them at either Great Northern or South Eastern, but they're not going to last forever. Of course Great Northern already have Desiro City stock within GTR, so perhaps more likely to go the Siemens route.

That's the thing - there's now several alternative products available for EMU replacement. Siemens, CAF and Bombardier - I'm guessing the competition between them must be pretty fierce. Alstom were looking at re-entering the UK market with an EMU design as well, which I suspect has now fallen by the wayside with the Bombardier takeover.

 

[py_megapixel]

And what about the remaining Networkers? Don't think there's any plans at the moment to replace them at either Great Northern or South Eastern, but they're not going to last forever. Of course Great Northern already have Desiro City stock within GTR, so perhaps more likely to go the Siemens route.

There are of course some GN Desiro Cities already, and don't forget Southeastern are soon to have some Desiro Cities.

 

[supervc-10]

Absolutely- I think though that the South Eastern fleet of Networkers is so huge, that the commonality factor is probably irrelevant! Total of 190 units at South Eastern, if Wiki is to be believed.

If Bombardier wanted to make a bi-mode Aventra, then there are far more opportunities out there.

 

[Domh245]

A high of their own making I think! Going by franchise agreements/press the 710s and 720s should both have been all in service by now, the 701s should be almost completed, leaving just the WMR and c2c orders to fulfil. I would agree that the future looks fairly bleak once the current orders are fulfilled - the only major contract in the pipeline is HS2, but that's a JV with Hitachi (and no guarantee that they'll win it of course). If they were the only UK based manufacturer, they could probably get by with whatever piecemeal orders come through + refurbishment works, but when there's 4 other factories competing for work, including one that's part of the same company...

 

[Mordac]

Don't worry, once the purchase of Bombardier by Alstom is finished I expect Derby will be for the chop soon.

 

[thenorthern]

Don't worry, once the purchase of Bombardier by Alstom is finished I expect Derby will be for the chop soon.

Doubt it post Brexit it will make sense to have factories in the United Kingdom.

 

[Mordac]

Doubt it post Brexit it will make sense to have factories in the United Kingdom.

The French state is one of the largest shareholders of Alstom. They'll do whatever is deemed politically expedient, not what makes business sense.

Remember the Sixth Law of Informed Sources: ‘Don’t engage in joint ventures with the French.’

 

[SHD]

The French state is one of the largest shareholders of Alstom. They'll do whatever is deemed politically expedient, not what makes business sense.

Remember the Sixth Law of Informed Sources: ‘Don’t engage in joint ventures with the French.’

"One of the largest shareholders", really? Would you care to specify the percentage of Alstom’s capital that is in the hands of the French state as of now, or even as of the last fiscal year?

 

[Mordac]

"One of the largest shareholders", really? Would you care to specify the percentage of Alstom’s capital that is in the hands of the French state as of now, or even as of the last fiscal year?

Well, I admit I wrong, and they have since I last heard about this given back their 20% holding. They are still very heavily politically entangled with the French government, and indeed it's not uncommon for SNCF to place new train orders whenever there's a danger of an Alstom plant closing.

 

[43096]

Well, I admit I wrong, and they have since I last heard about this given back their 20% holding. They are still very heavily politically entangled with the French government, and indeed it's not uncommon for SNCF to place new train orders whenever there's a danger of an Alstom plant closing.

The sixth law still applies regardless of state ownership.

 

[Mordac]

The sixth law still applies regardless of state ownership.

True!

 

[supervc-10]

That must be why Airbus are doing so badly... oh... wait

 

[Mordac]

Given that there's very little of Airbus' production remaining in the UK, I'd say it's a textbook example actually. The claim isn't that it'll harm the French parts.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Given that there's very little of Airbus' production remaining in the UK, I'd say it's a textbook example actually. The claim isn't that it'll harm the French parts.

Broughton makes all the wings for Airbus planes* and there are no plans to stop that.
Depends on how Brexit and Covid turn out, though.
Airbus has been a textbook example on how to manage cross-border development and manufacture (including satellites as well as aircraft).

Bombardier Derby is in a much better state than for a generation, but there's no sign of a decrease in competition to build new trains.
Again, it depends on how Covid and Brexit go, as well as the Alstom ownership.
The HS2 order will set the scene - but there are 4 other bidders, all with a UK manufacturing option.

* A220 wings are built in Belfast (ex-Bombardier)

 

[StephenHunter]

Wouldn't we be looking to replace the Sprinters soon?

 

[JamesT]

Wouldn't we be looking to replace the Sprinters soon?

The oldest Sprinter is 36, so they are coming towards the end of their life. However would Bombardier have anything suitable to offer? Their last UK DMU was the Turbostar almost a decade ago.

 

[Sean Davidson]

This is good news too me, what with Brexit we need to build more factories of all sorts, we have unemployment here, we should be making things ourselves rather than buying everything from abroad.

 

[Meerkat]

Has any helpful soul got a website they update with what is building in the various UK train factories and what they have planned?
Would be useful for guessing who will run out of work and how it lines up with things that might need replacing (ie will XC get Hitachi bi-modes as a political decision to keep the factory open).

 

[James James]

This is good news too me, what with Brexit we need to build more factories of all sorts, we have unemployment here, we should be making things ourselves rather than buying everything from abroad.

Need to make up for reduced exports somehow.

 

[Domh245]

Has any helpful soul got a website they update with what is building in the various UK train factories and what they have planned?
Would be useful for guessing who will run out of work and how it lines up with things that might need replacing (ie will XC get Hitachi bi-modes as a political decision to keep the factory open).

CAF Newport: WMR 196, TfW 197
Derby: GA 720, SWR 701, WMR 730s, (c2c 720)
Newton Aycliffe: FirstEC 803, modifications to LNER 80x
(Siemens Goole): (Piccadilly Line stock)

Newton Aycliffe will be first to run out of work (within the year), followed by Derby and then Newport (the TfW build appears to be aimed for completion ~2022)

 

[43096]

CAF Newport: WMR 196, TfW 197
Derby: GA 720, SWR 701, WMR 730s, (c2c 720)
Newton Aycliffe: FirstEC 803, modifications to LNER 80x
(Siemens Goole): (Piccadilly Line stock)

Newton Aycliffe will be first to run out of work (within the year), followed by Derby and then Newport (the TfW build appears to be aimed for completion ~2022)

Isn’t Newton Aycliffe doing the Avanti 805/807 fleets and EMR 810s?