Bolton to Bamber Bridge Routings

[premier01]

With lots of cancellations currently, is Bolton to Preston to Bamber Bridge a valid routing? Any suggestions appreciated

 

[lyndhurst25]

Bolton to Bamber Bridge tickets are all routed "via Blackburn", despite the journey via Preston only being around 2 miles longer. So via Preston isn't permitted with one of those tickets, but in the event of disruption you'd have thought that some discretion would be shown.

(PM sent!)


Incidentally, Bolton to Lostock Hall tickets are also all routed via Blackburn, despite the route via Preston being the shortest!

 

[yorkie]

With lots of cancellations currently, is Bolton to Preston to Bamber Bridge a valid routing? Any suggestions appreciated

It's a permitted route (when trains run!), and if a rail replacement bus is involved then the Routeing Guide check is done for the train leg only anyway.

However as said above, the fares are all routed "via Blackburn"

Please do write to Northern and ask them what they advise passengers to do, ask them why they changed the route on the ticket, and what ticket(s) should people purchase if they wish to travel via Preston. I'd be very interested to hear their answer.

Please do also send an FOI request to the DfT asking if they granted permission for this longstanding permitted route to no longer be available to customers, and if so, why?

You may also want to write to your MP.

Unfortunately the DfT and train companies are conspiring against passengers to make tickets more restrictive than ever before, and this is just one example of the sorts of problems they are causing.

The re-routeing of these fares from "any permitted" to "via preston" is an absolute disgrace, and demonstrates the utter contempt in which the passengers are regarded in by the DfT and Northern.

And it's going to get worse, as even more tickets are restricted in this way.

In fact, the outcome the DfT want at the end of the upcoming fares consultation is for there to be no concept of a routeing guide, and for all tickets to be restricted in this manner, and this will force passengers who wish to travel via non permitted stations to purchase a combination of tickets.

 

[yorkie]

Incidentally Trainline will offer itineraries via Blackburn and Preston; this is not permitted but they have a bug with their implementation of the common routeing point rule (see thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...orden-to-hebden-bridge-via-accrington.163469/ ) it's surprising that bug is still not fixed.

However booking engines are not allowed to offer travel that does not go via Blackburn, even if avoiding Blackburn would be valid as per the through trains rule or shortest route rule or if it was a mapped route, because of the draconian 'via Blackburn' restriction printed on the ticket.

 

[premier01]

Thanks for the replies. Based on what Yorkie is suggesting in 2nd reply, I would guess Northern Fail would reply to any enquiry into this particular restriction by suggesting customers should purchase a Bamber Bridge to Preston ticket and a seperate Preston to Bolton ticket if they wish to travel to Bolton via Preston ☹

Not great at all but unsurprising also.

 

[lyndhurst25]

This is one of those cases where the Routeing Guide says "yes" but the lack of an "any permitted" fare means that the real answer is "no". I'm sure that there are (an increasing number of) other examples.

I know that Train Operating Companies are supposed to get permission from the Department for Transport to have the Routeing Guide changed, but do they need to seek permission to change all the tickets on a flow from route "any permitted" to "via X"? Doing so is effectively bypassing the Routeing Guide and should be subject to the same level of scrutiny (for what it's worth). What actually happens in practice?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

This is one of those cases where the Routeing Guide says "yes" but the lack of an "any permitted" fare means that the real answer is "no". I'm sure that there are (an increasing number of) other examples.

I know that Train Operating Companies are supposed to get permission from the Department for Transport to have the Routeing Guide changed, but do they need to seek permission to change all the tickets on a flow from route "any permitted" to "via X"? Doing so is effectively bypassing the Routeing Guide and should be subject to the same level of scrutiny (for what it's worth). What actually happens in practice?

If it's a regulated flow, yes they require the SoS' permission. If it's not, they can change it at will.

Some/most (delete as per your level of cynisym) TOCs regularly breach this requirement.

 

[kieron]

I know that Train Operating Companies are supposed to get permission from the Department for Transport to have the Routeing Guide changed, but do they need to seek permission to change all the tickets on a flow from route "any permitted" to "via X"?

Do you happen to know how long this route has has "via Blackburn" tickets? I know that was the route for Bolton-Bamber Bridge in September 2015 but I don't know before that.

There used to be a site (farehistory.info) which had lists of fares going back a few years, but I don't know if anywhere does that now. It would, at least, cut the risk of someone complaining to a TOC about a decision which was taken by someone else long before their franchise started.

 

[alistairlees]

It's not always bad news when this happens. Baildon to Pontefract Monkhill is now "via Leeds" (I think it used to be "Any Permitted"). And that's resulted in more routes from Baildon to Pontefract, not fewer.

According to the routeing guide, the only mapped routes from Baildon to Pontefract Monkhill don't involve going via Wakefield. The mapped routes from Leeds to Pontefract include both the Wakefield and the Woodlesford routes though. So customers have gained more services. The routes from Baildon to Leeds are unaffected by these changes.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Do you happen to know how long this route has has "via Blackburn" tickets? I know that was the route for Bolton-Bamber Bridge in September 2015 but I don't know before that.

There used to be a site (farehistory.info) which had lists of fares going back a few years, but I don't know if anywhere does that now. It would, at least, cut the risk of someone complaining to a TOC about a decision which was taken by someone else long before their franchise started.

That was a useful website. I wish it would come back online.

The oldest fare data that I have is a NFM11 CD from 2012. On that all Bolton to Bamber Bridge fares are routed "via Blackburn", so it's been going on for a while.

 

[lyndhurst25]

UPDATE - I've found an old installation of Avantix Traveller NFM05 (2010): Bolton to Bamber Bridge fares were routed "Any Permitted" back then. So the change happened somewhere between 2010 and 2012. Even though it was changed a while ago it's still a silly restriction to have in place. Via Preston is sometimes quicker and, for Lostock Hall, is absolutely the shortest route.

 

[rishtonlad]

I leave on the East Lancashire Line and if I were making that route my first would be to travel via Preston and not Blackburn