boarding train that didn't stop at previous location?

[truckman060473]

when i caught the 14.00 57 hauled train Cardiff to Patchway to change for a return on the 67 hauled train back to Cardiff, i decided to get off at Newport to see the Holyhead 57. Boarding the 17.31 HST back to Swansea, even though no guard came round checking tickets, if he/she had, is it possible they may have said the ticket was not valid seeing as the FGW service had NOT stopped at Patchway? (my ticket was an off peak return Cardiff to Patchway) oh and i did have another previously bought return ticket covering the Swansea - Cardiff.

 

[generalvegitable]

thats classed as a break of journey, for all the guard knows, you could have got on a train without a toilet, and stopped to use a toilet on a station, or there may not have been a buffet onboard so you got off to get something to eat. the ticket is valid, I have done something like that before

 

[truckman060473]

I see. suppose it needs excuses like that or would the guard appreciate that you follow an interest in the railways! there must be some confused railway staff out there with the odd places enthusiasts want to get off and on! I remember going to Cardiff before where my me and a mate were checking out the trains plus waiting unneccesarily longer for a particular loco hauled train to arrive. in the mean time he went off the station three times for a cigarette asking the barrier staff to allow him through to avoid losing his ticket. they eventually asked, "haven't you caught your train yet?" which is somewhat amusing!

 

[clagmonster]

There is no off-peak return from Cardiff to Patchway. What I assume you had was an off-peak day return (formerly cheap day return), priced at £8.80. Break of journey is valid on all cheap day, saver and supersaver tickets unless the tickets restriction code specifically prohibits this. In this case, there is no such prohibition so break of journey is allowed in both direction.
Also, I believe that break of journey is actually defined as leaving the station, apart from cases where you need to transfer between stations.

 

[truckman060473]

yes it was an off peak day return. but you dare not leave the station (Newport) in case the ticket barrier swallows your ticket when you need it to the next stop

 

[yorkie]

when i caught the 14.00 57 hauled train Cardiff to Patchway to change for a return on the 67 hauled train back to Cardiff, i decided to get off at Newport to see the Holyhead 57. Boarding the 17.31 HST back to Swansea, even though no guard came round checking tickets, if he/she had, is it possible they may have said the ticket was not valid seeing as the FGW service had NOT stopped at Patchway? (my ticket was an off peak return Cardiff to Patchway) oh and i did have another previously bought return ticket covering the Swansea - Cardiff.

This question makes no sense to me. How could a ticket from Patchway not be valid between Newport and Cardiff? Am I missing something?

thats classed as a break of journey, for all the guard knows, you could have got on a train without a toilet, and stopped to use a toilet on a station, or there may not have been a buffet onboard so you got off to get something to eat. the ticket is valid, I have done something like that before

No it isn't a break of journey. He says he saw a train, that doesn't sound like he left station premises to me?

yes it was an off peak day return. but you dare not leave the station (Newport) in case the ticket barrier swallows your ticket when you need it to the next stop

If that happens (it's only happened to me once) get them to open up the barrier and retrieve it. If they refuse, demand they issue you a replacement ticket. If you're really worried about it, show them the ticket for 'manual' inspection rather than using the ticket barrier (but some staff insist you put it through the gates).

 

[truckman060473]

i was just seeing if the ticket i got to Patchway was valid on the return considering i boarded a 67 hauled service back to Cardiff, and got off at Newport when the HST was not calling at Patchway. I cant understand what u mean by saying "this question makes no sense to me"? I'm sure i've read somewhere on the forum that a journey break, where the operator didn't stop at a location could say the ticket is only valid between origin/pick up points on THAT journey. just would be nice to know whether this is right or wrong anyway.

 

[yorkie]

Newport is between Patchway and Cardiff. So if you have a ticket that is valid between Patchway and Cardiff, it has to be valid at Newport and on a train between Newport and Cardiff. Under what circumstances couldn't it be? :-?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm sure i've read somewhere on the forum that a journey break,

Break of journey? This is defined as leaving station premises (except to change to another station, e.g. Birmingham Moor St to New St)

where the operator didn't stop at a location could say the ticket is only valid between origin/pick up points on THAT journey.

The ticket is valid between the origin and destination, on any route between the origin and destination that is defined as a permitted route. Newport is on the only permitted route, so the ticket is valid via Newport.

just would be nice to know whether this is right or wrong anyway.

If you're asking if you can break your journey, yes you can. But you didn't even break your journey anyway, you just changed trains. Even if break of journey wasn't permitted, they can't stop you changing trains.

Break of journey is permitted on the return portion of all walk-on fares that I am aware of. Break of journey is also permitted on the outward portion of most walk-on fares (the exceptions being some Off Peak (without the 'Day') tickets)

 

[truckman060473]

interesting that you can ask the barrier operators to release the ticket! thought they'd just say, " it swallowed it mate, nowt more we can do for ya" but if this is not the case i can leave station then in places like Cardiff & Newport?

 

[yorkie]

interesting that you can ask the barrier operators to release the ticket! thought they'd just say, " it swallowed it mate, nowt more we can do for ya" but if this is not the case i can leave station then in places like Cardiff & Newport?

Well, I wouldn't accept that. People need to be more assertive! I don't see how they can deny you travel that you've paid for, so just insist that they retrieve your ticket or issue a new one. It's their problem surely. It's highly unlikely to happen - have you experienced it? I have once, and that was at Paddington and I think it was an LU barrier. So yes I wouldn't worry about breaking your journey at Cardiff or Newport. I wouldn't let the fear of a ticket being swallowed preventing me from doing what I want to do.

 

[truckman060473]

ta. it's good to know. just would have thought the barrier staff would be a problem, if you wanted to get thru for a normal reason or, like my mate had since the smoking ban on stations he was quite annoyed recently when his ticket had to be manually inspected every time he left the station at Cardiff for a cigarette and was questioned about it the 3rd time. and he is adamant there shouldn't be a problem smoking at the very end of platform, way, way way from the roofed over canopy, when just standing there to see trains

 

[moonrakerz]

Break of journey? This is defined as leaving station premises (except to change to another station, e.g. Birmingham Moor St to New St)

NRCoC:
"For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated as breaking your
journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start
your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably
complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s staff."

Very clear.....BUT........according to Wikipedia's article on NRCoC:

"Also, since all stations are now non-smoking, a request to staff leave to have a cigarette must now be granted, and is not a break of journey, either"

True or not ? Or is that covered by (iii) above if you receive permission from "a member of a Train Company's staff" ?

 

[yorkie]

I've not heard anything that says it "must" be granted. Is there any other source for this I wonder?

It's covered by (iii) but I'd imagine that would be at their discretion.

I'd guess that if they absolutely refused to let you out of the station premises for a smoke and you disobeyed them you'd technically invalidate the ticket.

If it's a station with a car park, and you go into the car park you are leaving the building but still on station property, so I guess that wouldn't count!

If such a rule exists then that would make things interesting. I'm not convinced until I see it documented somewhere authoritative though!

 

[142094]

How many times can you theoretically get on and off a train with the same ticket, without leaving the station (so not a break of journey)?

E.g if I was doing the TransPennine Rail Ale Trail. I start at Leeds and get off at the first stop for the pub at Batley (pub not in the station), so this counts as a break of journey. However next stop is Dewsbury, I haven't left the station as the pub is on the platform.

In addition, I could get off at any unmanned station, leave and come back and say that I never left the station, so I could say it wasn't a break of journey. Is there anything stopping this, apart from the use of CCTV?

 

[moonrakerz]

If it's a station with a car park, and you go into the car park you are leaving the building but still on station property, so I guess that wouldn't count!

It obviously doesn't at Exeter St Davids - if you follow the signs from inside the station for the cash machine, you end up outside in the car park !