Blockade to allow Waterloo upgrade to take place, resulting in timetable changes

[bb21]

Sorry I probably didn't make it clear, 5 paths, one for each platform, but 5 days of the same path to check various stock?

Reliably informed 8531+8532 doing the honours today, and the two diagrams are 458 ones, coming off 2R13 which otherwise forms 5Y24 to Clapham.

Same diagrams planned for the rest of the week.

 

[swt_passenger]

Reliably informed 8531+8532 doing the honours today, and the two diagrams are 458 ones, coming off 2R13 which otherwise forms 5Y24 to Clapham.

That's the ones I saw earlier. Just looked at a very short piece of phone video and translated the vehicle numbers to units. Bowled by a departing 455, and another arriving 450. Never made it into the shed during the half hour I could afford to watch...

 

[rj90]

Yes sure. But our theorising will probably be blown away when they use 458s all week...

Perhaps people could keep a look out over the next few days...

I think it's planned for 458s throughout. Tried to get them to use a 707 yesterday but to no avail.

 

[infobleep]

Could some of that be down to just the volume of people heading to Wimbledon for the tennis?

The tennis doesn't start until 12pm so i wouldn't have thought people would be arriving at 8am but maybe they do to queue.

 

[infobleep]

I'd hardly call a up Cobham a semi fast at anytime, thanks to the poor timetable, all you need to do is approximately 37-38 mph to achieve the damned awful 8 minutes journey time from Surbiton to Wimbledon, a journey that in reality can be done in 6. 8 is with Malden and Raynes thrown in.

I nick named it the semi-slow myself but I've tended not to use that term here.

I've never understood why the trains on that line only call at New Malden on the 7.06 departure and 7.35 departure, as those trains are booked to arrive at Clapham Junction at 28 and 58 minutes past the hour just like all the ones that don't stop at New Malden at all other times.

Anyway I digress. There is a points failure affecting platforms 5 - 9 at Waterloo today. Is this down to old signalling that just gets patched up or nothing of the sort? If it is old signalling, will the August blockade deal with such signalling?

I see various trains are terminating short but the last train to Clapham (as I nickname it, aka 6.12 Petersfield to Waterloo) was terminated and then reinstated, leaving 12 minutes late from Guildford. Always pleased when that train isn't cancelled during disruption, especially the Clapham Junction stop, even if I'm not on it.

 

[infobleep]

Today is a bad example to use, or rather, a somewhat unfair example to use, as the 07:07 fast from Surbiton to Waterloo was cancelled - I think it failed somewhere around Ash Vale, on its way to Woking from Farnham. As a result, the 07:27 will have been rammed, as will the 07:38, both of which have the same calling pattern from Woking to Waterloo as the 07:06.

For whatever reason, the fast service from SUR-WAT between 06:41 and 07:38 is rubbish at best, and when one of the two services gets cancelled, they don't bother to stop any of the somewhat empty fast services in that period to relieve the consequent overcrowding at SUR. I'm just glad I was on the 06:57 today.

OK. Thank you for that. I hadn't noticed that the train stops at Surbiton. Of course when slow services (aka semi-fast and stopping) are cancelled from Surbtion in the morning they don't put any others on. If Wimbledon, Earlsfield and Clapham Junction and Vauxhall are cancelled but not Surbtion, they also don't do anything else.

I can only assume paths and times just simply do not allow of any changes other than to miss out stops if trains are running late. I guess the works for the additional platforms probably wouldn't help in this case as the issue isn't solely the number of platforms at Waterloo but number of trains that need to be run on the lines towards Waterloo and then away again.

 

[pompeyfan]

I nick named it the semi-slow myself but I've tended not to use that term here.

I've never understood why the trains on that line only call at New Malden on the 7.06 departure and 7.35 departure, as those trains are booked to arrive at Clapham Junction at 28 and 58 minutes past the hour just like all the ones that don't stop at New Malden at all other times.

Anyway I digress. There is a points failure affecting platforms 5 - 9 at Waterloo today. Is this down to old signalling that just gets patched up or nothing of the sort? If it is old signalling, will the August blockade deal with such signalling?

I see various trains are terminating short but the last train to Clapham (as I nickname it, aka 6.12 Petersfield to Waterloo) was terminated and then reinstated, leaving 12 minutes late from Guildford. Always pleased when that train isn't cancelled during disruption, especially the Clapham Junction stop, even if I'm not on it.

From what I understand the track circuit has failed hard down, which I believe means the signalling equipment thinks there is a train currently over the set of points, as a result the points won't change. Track circuit failures can be caused by many things, usually something causing it to short out.

 

[rj90]

I nick named it the semi-slow myself but I've tended not to use that term here.

I've never understood why the trains on that line only call at New Malden on the 7.06 departure and 7.35 departure, as those trains are booked to arrive at Clapham Junction at 28 and 58 minutes past the hour just like all the ones that don't stop at New Malden at all other times.

Anyway I digress. There is a points failure affecting platforms 5 - 9 at Waterloo today. Is this down to old signalling that just gets patched up or nothing of the sort? If it is old signalling, will the August blockade deal with such signalling?

I see various trains are terminating short but the last train to Clapham (as I nickname it, aka 6.12 Petersfield to Waterloo) was terminated and then reinstated, leaving 12 minutes late from Guildford. Always pleased when that train isn't cancelled during disruption, especially the Clapham Junction stop, even if I'm not on it.

August works will end up with brand new signalling for platforms 1-8 and the slow lines.

Bathtub effect (of reliability) will likely mean more failures in the short term. It significantly increased reliability in the medium and long term.

 

[fairysdad]

Random thought - with certain platform stopping markers changing over the past few days, will the remaining suburban services into Waterloo be running as 10-car trains given that (as far as I know anyway!) the only reason they now aren't is because of the platform lengths in Waterloo (which is the main reason for this August's works)?

 

[swt_passenger]

Random thought - with certain platform stopping markers changing over the past few days, will the remaining suburban services into Waterloo be running as 10-car trains given that (as far as I know anyway!) the only reason they now aren't is because of the platform lengths in Waterloo (which is the main reason for this August's works)?

The SWT announcements so far have always said the additional 10 car operations don't start until Dec 2017. I expect that would have coincided with full introduction of 707s. Until they do that they can't really change the diagramming, although they could run existing 10 car trains on the main suburban side into different platforms.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've never understood why the trains on that line only call at New Malden on the 7.06 departure and 7.35 departure...

Please could we keep to matters directly concerning the August blockade in this thread, rather than day to day problems?

 

[fairysdad]

The SWT announcements so far have always said the additional 10 car operations don't start until Dec 2017. I expect that would have coincided with full introduction of 707s. Until they do that they can't really change the diagramming, although they could run existing 10 car trains on the main suburban side into different platforms.

I was mainly asking during the blockade only - with fewer trains running, there would be more 456s to attach to 2x455 to make 10-car trains, and with platforms 1-10 not in use at Waterloo, there is the platform length capacity for 10-car trains.

 

[swt_passenger]

I was mainly asking during the blockade only - with fewer trains running, there would be more 456s to attach to 2x455 to make 10-car trains, and with platforms 1-10 not in use at Waterloo, there is the platform length capacity for 10-car trains.

Don't know. It does seem a logical improvement to make though.

Sorry, but I didn't catch that possible meaning of your earlier question...

 

[infobleep]

August works will end up with brand new signalling for platforms 1-8 and the slow lines.

Bathtub effect (of reliability) will likely mean more failures in the short term. It significantly increased reliability in the medium and long term.

Which in the short term will mean people criticising the new franchise, including the Evening Standard I'm sure, even though it's not their fault and things need to bed in so to speak.

 

[infobleep]

Please could we keep to matters directly concerning the August blockade in this thread, rather than day to day problems?

Sure. Sorry I was just reply to the previous post by HarleyDavidson.

 

[infobleep]

Network Rail say this will be disruptive and their may be queues at stations and delays to trains. Does anyone on here think it will go like the Olympics in 2012? Whereby people heeded advice and avoided the trains if they could, so trains ended up not being as busy as expected.

I think it could go like that. However there are less trains running so maybe I'm being too optimistic. I can't wait to find out.

Be interesting to know how many less seats will exist during the blockade compared to normal. I would say trains but if they lengthen trains that are running, it's not a fair comparison.

 

[TEW]

I was mainly asking during the blockade only - with fewer trains running, there would be more 456s to attach to 2x455 to make 10-car trains, and with platforms 1-10 not in use at Waterloo, there is the platform length capacity for 10-car trains.

The plan is for 10-car trains running on Suburban services via Wimbledon during the blockade, and that is why the stop marks have changed recently. Guilldford-Ascot is planned to be worked by 450s during the blockade to free up 456s.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Norbiton, which is quite a busy station at rush hours, will be closed during the blockade period, as all Kingston and Shepperton services will run via Richmond, and nothing will run from Kingston via Wimbledon to Waterloo. Would it be possible for the Kingston service to be run on to Norbiton and turned there? There isn't these days a crossover at Norbiton, but there is a facing one at Kingston, which could on the face of it allow wrong-line running to Norbiton. Or would this require changes to signalling that would be too costly to implement for just a few weeks?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Norbiton, which is quite a busy station at rush hours, will be closed during the blockade period, as all Kingston and Shepperton services will run via Richmond, and nothing will run from Kingston via Wimbledon to Waterloo. Would it be possible for the Kingston service to be run on to Norbiton and turned there? There isn't these days a crossover at Norbiton, but there is a facing one at Kingston, which could on the face of it allow wrong-line running to Norbiton. Or would this require changes to signalling that would be too costly to implement for just a few weeks?

It would require single line working to be implemented. Without going into too much detail, it would require a pilotman to be on duty 24 hours a day. Most of the available pilotmen (who are mostly MOMS) are otherwise engaged being on standby in inner London in order to respond more swiftly to any incidents that may affect the blockade. Combine that with the fact that if Norbiton station is open people are going to assume there'll be a full service and there would be a maximum of 3tph, resulting in extreme overcrowding (quite apart from the usual loads Norbiton is the closest station to Kingston hospital) . Better to stick people on frequent buses.

 

[RichmondCommu]

There's a banner at Richmond station: 'Improvements at Waterloo will mean significantly fewer trains.'

I think that this could have been worded a little better.

Indeed it could but I think their intentions are very sensible. I know of several people including myself who have decided to take annual leave during the platform closures so Network Rails warning has certainly been heeded.

 

[hwl]

Norbiton, which is quite a busy station at rush hours, will be closed during the blockade period, as all Kingston and Shepperton services will run via Richmond, and nothing will run from Kingston via Wimbledon to Waterloo. Would it be possible for the Kingston service to be run on to Norbiton and turned there? There isn't these days a crossover at Norbiton, but there is a facing one at Kingston, which could on the face of it allow wrong-line running to Norbiton. Or would this require changes to signalling that would be too costly to implement for just a few weeks?

There is fatal flaw in your logic - you are assuming that no one at SWT and NR spotted the opportunity to do some work at Norbiton when there are no trains running.

 

[theironroad]

Indeed it could but I think their intentions are very sensible. I know of several people including myself who have decided to take annual leave during the platform closures so Network Rails warning has certainly been heeded.

Are you taking the whole period off (5-28 august)?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Are you taking the whole period off (5-28 august)?

I very rarely go into the office at weekends so my holiday starts on the 7th but yes I will be taking three weeks annual leave.

 

[Ian Hardy]

There is fatal flaw in your logic - you are assuming that no one at SWT and NR spotted the opportunity to do some work at Norbiton when there are no trains running.

According to the EAS:

NO SERVICES TO RUN BETWEEN NEW MALDEN AND KINGSTON

SWT TO USE PLATFORMS 1 AND 2 AT KINGSTON FOR TERMINATING SERVICES FROM THE
TEDDINGTON DIRECTION

SIGNALLING: ELM ROAD LC PREP
FELTHAM RESIGNALLING BLOCKADE

 

[infobleep]

There is fatal flaw in your logic - you are assuming that no one at SWT and NR spotted the opportunity to do some work at Norbiton when there are no trains running.

So what work is being done at Norbiton? Your right it is a good time to do some work.

 

[infobleep]

I very rarely go into the office at weekends so my holiday starts on the 7th but yes I will be taking three weeks annual leave.

If I took three weeks annual leave, I'd have hardly any left.

Not that it matters because on the lines I might mostly use, they are either running the same number of trains in the morning or even more. The evening peak might have the same number of trains but I think my journey opportunities are still better.

Be interesting to see how busy these trains will be.

 

[OneOffDave]

As I've got to provide emergency cover at work I can't take any of this period off, esp as I'm on call in the middle of it.

I'm not so concerned about getting in as the trains shouldn't be too crowded, it's more about getting home as it's hard enough finding space during a normal week. Given I can only use one carriage out of every 4 car set, my options are a bit limited.

 

[Dr_Paul]

It would require single line working to be implemented. Without going into too much detail, it would require a pilotman to be on duty 24 hours a day. Most of the available pilotmen (who are mostly MOMS) are otherwise engaged being on standby in inner London in order to respond more swiftly to any incidents that may affect the blockade. Combine that with the fact that if Norbiton station is open people are going to assume there'll be a full service and there would be a maximum of 3tph, resulting in extreme overcrowding (quite apart from the usual loads Norbiton is the closest station to Kingston hospital) . Better to stick people on frequent buses.

Thanks for that -- I did wonder if doing what I outlined would involve all sorts of operational difficulties.

 

[Dstock7080]

District Line, modified Wimbledon branch peak service to enable South West Trains diversions.;
7-11 August
14-18 August
21-25 August
Timetable Notice 75/17 refers.

District Line trains will depart Wimbledon at same times as current timetable WTT149, no reduction in frequency.
The only alteration is that trains will be held at Putney Bridge WB platform for ½-1½ mins to allow SWT trains over East Putney junction.

 

[zoneking]

The timetable for Epsom, published this month, shows Southern services running to Guildford. However, they are not currently running due to the overtime ban. Will this still be the case next month?