Blackpool Transport

[Whistler40145]

Does anyone know whether Blackpool Transport have any plans to replace any buses in the future?

I travel on them around the Fylde Coast & the older members of the fleet seem to be past their best & frequently break down!

We have seen newer Single Deckers introduced during the last 12 months, but they are second hand!

 

[pete3080]

Blackpool Transport bought 9 brand new buses last year but don't know what their plans are to buy more. Haven't seen anything about the second hand buses. There is a whole new tram system as well. Unfortunately despite all the money being spent it isn't hard to find people moaning even when their information is wrong.

There is around £200m being spent on Blackpool including the new light railway, miles of new promenade and refurbishment of the Tower, Winter Gardens, and major new features at the Pleasure Beach and a new Madame Tussauds opening in a couple of weeks. Let's hope some locals see the sunshine.

 

[Whistler40145]

Well, my Driving Instructor has information from people he knows in the Bus industry that what we thought were brand new buses (60 Plate), in fact were bought after they had been in storage for three years in East Anglia, but hadn't been registered as they couldn't sell them when built!

 

[WestCoast]

Well, my Driving Instructor has information from people he knows in the Bus industry that what we thought were brand new buses (60 Plate), in fact were bought after they had been in storage for three years in East Anglia, but hadn't been registered as they couldn't sell them when built!

Not sure about that, but I do know the company bought some single decker Volvos from Anglia Bus, which were around 4-5 years old. They are 06 plate I think.

They also bought a brand new fleet of 9 Plaxton single-deckers from a dealer.

If you want to know more I'd suggest you read this blog - from a real insider!

 

[pete3080]

Interesting, but if they were unsold and un-registered they weren't second hand. Sounds like the council might have got quite a good deal. The Volvo website claims they were new.

Sorry to sound irritated but I was looking at comments on the Gazette website and thought there seem to be a lot of people around who would complain if they won the lottery. Then your note appeared on twitter.

Pete

 

[WestCoast]

Sorry to sound irritated but I was looking at comments on the Gazette website and thought there seem to be a lot of people around who would complain if they won the lottery. Then your note appeared on twitter.

I wouldn't take much notice of this - comments on newspaper articles are always negative. Reading the comments are the Daily Mail's website is a truly depressing experience.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't live in the immediate area, although I used to live on a route that was served by a Blackpool Transport bus route - it's now changed to another company. As far as bus operators they are average - their fares are not cheap but not prohibitively expensive, the drivers are OK mainly and punctuality is OK.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Blackpool doesn't have a particularly old fleet, and with the exception of a couple of Olympians (including those on the summer open top service) is mostly low floor. Try going to Preston and see if stagecoach have much newer there? There wasn't when I last went (just over a year ago). Actually, outside of London Blackpool's fleet seems pretty average. Problem is, people moan if they don't get new buses all the time, but would moan too if the fares went up loads to pay for it.

When it comes to old buses past off as new, it happens a lot. The "age" is from first registration, not manufacture. Car are the same, many "new" cars have actually been in storage for some time before registration. It's not new either. My S reg (78) bus has a 76 chassis number (although interestingly a 78 body number, suggesting it was either sat unbodied for sometime or was rebodied before registration). Of cource, vehicles still have to be compliant with standards when first registered, and they only seem to do it when there have been no design changes, so without things like chassis numbers (which don't always show the date or manufacture anyway) it's impossible to tell.

 

[nctx]

They seem to like ex Reading Optare Excel 1's

They brought a few in 2009/2010.

 

[cainebj]

Well, my Driving Instructor has information from people he knows in the Bus industry that what we thought were brand new buses (60 Plate), in fact were bought after they had been in storage for three years in East Anglia, but hadn't been registered as they couldn't sell them when built!

There's a few buses like that, mainly the Plaxton Primo. You can still buy a Plaxton Primo today on an 11 reg, but they haven't built one for years. The company who built the chassis (Enterprise) went bankrupt a few years ago, but Plaxton still had a large number of Primo's in storage that were unsold. A decent number of these have since been purchased by Reays Coaches in Cumbria, for use on their CityHopper bus services in Carlisle (started in October 2010), attempting (and failing) to compete against Stagecoach's Carlisle Citi network (established in summer 2005).
The BF registrations on the Plaxton Centro's at BT are there because they were registered by Volvo at their Coventry centre (opened in 2010 I think).

As for new buses for Blackpool, I'm not aware of any plans to purchase brand new vehicles. Most of the standard public services now should be operated by low floor buses, the oldest being 12 years old. The step entrance buses nowadays should be restricted to schools and special duties only where possible, but as you get with any company, they will also provide as a back-up fleet to cover breakdowns etc.

All I can really say for now, is new (or 2nd hand) double deckers could be entering the Blackpool fleet in a few years. CitySightseeing tour contracts, when renewed, will have full wheelchair accessibility written into the contracts, so those D reg Leyland Olympians will have to go. BT could obviously run the service as their own open top service, with the Leyland Olympians in their own livery, but to keep them in CitySightseeing livery, with the brand, they should be operated by low floor vehicles upon contract renewal.

 

[Whistler40145]

Saying they don't have an old fleet, they still seem to be quite unreliable, be this a lack of good maintenance or running some of the older fleet members into the ground!

 

[cainebj]

Saying they don't have an old fleet, they still seem to be quite unreliable, be this a lack of good maintenance or running some of the older fleet members into the ground!

Quick simple answer to that! Pathetically useless Cummins engines, and knackered old Merc engines in some Solo's Despite the Cummins engine being rather useless and unreliable as they age, they still achieve very good fuel economy!

 

[Whistler40145]

I have heard that at least 15 of the early Solos could be on their way pretty soon.

 

[robertclark125]

My experience, they seem to be a good operator. Only gripe I had with them was in the colour coded route days, the 11 to Lytham or st annes. Those terminating at St Annes went along the promenade there, but the destination didn't make this clear, and I suggested such workings be numbered 11A.

 

[BestWestern]

What are people's thoughts on the new livery? I'm not overly keen on it as applied to the Centro's, the combination of lots of black applied to a bus with bonded glazing isn't ideal really. Looks slightly better on the deckers, though it's a lot of black on the lower front end. Not all bad though I guess, squint and it could be a HandyBus! Nice to see the old logo making a comeback, though green and cream would of course have been nice too!

As for the issue old 'new' buses, the operator my Father works for have just taken in some Enviro's I believe which have been sat somewhere for a fair old while. It isn't particularly uncommon, and is an easy bargain for an operator willing to compromise on things like interior spec and so on. Blackpool seem to have a recent policy of second hand acquisitions, which seems to have worked fairly well for them in allowing a healthy pace of fleet replacement in recent years.

 

[Whistler40145]

I don't like Blackpool Transport's new Livery, they should reintroduce Green & Cream with the Progress crest.

 

[BestWestern]

I don't like Blackpool Transport's new Livery, they should reintroduce Green & Cream with the Progress crest.

I'm very suprised that they chose to discontinue the Metro concept, seeing how popular route branding is at the minute. Presumably there'll be much variety of vehicles on routes now, there certainly is at the moment! All Metro-liveried vehicles are now running around with a carefully placed yellow circle containing the 'new' logo over the Metro route number branding on the bodyside. Buses of all colours everywhere when I was in town a couple of weeks back!

 

[WestCoast]

I am not keen on the new livery. Choosing to throw out the innovative colour coding concept may have been a commercial decision, but it certainly downgraded the quality of the operator in my opinion.

They were a model for branding before the change, now they're just anyone else. If it wasn't for the tramway, which is deemed a liability, I suspect the company would be owned by a big transport company by now.

 

[jonesy3001]

Any idea what service solo 285(yno4 xyz) goes on??
I have got pics of the new tram depot at squires gate got about 6 photos in this set;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56473563@N02/5607892200/

 

[BestWestern]

I am not keen on the new livery. Choosing to throw out the innovative colour coding concept may have been a commercial decision, but it certainly downgraded the quality of the operator in my opinion.

They were a model for branding before the change, now they're just anyone else. If it wasn't for the tramway, which is deemed a liability, I suspect the company would be owned by a big transport company by now.

An interesting point. One wonders if the investment in the tramway will make it a more attractive option ( I doubt it actually, considering the likelyhood of it becoming a commercial failure ), and which of the big groups might be interested. Stagecoach would presumably be out of the running considering their recent issues down the road in Preston and the few services they already run into BT's territory?!

 

[umontu]

The route branding was better imho, I liked it more because you could tell what bus it was from further away, the fleet had some variety in it because of these colours, it stood out and drew attention to them and it made it more entertaining if you were bored to guess what colours you'd see.

That and the black, yellow, red and white design looks just wrong to me, too messy and makes their busses look more like a school bus; infact the first time I saw the new livery I thought/hoped it was a test of a new bus rather than a real member of the fleet.

Meanwhile the tram way, having only lived down the road from Blackpool all my life, I've been on it once or twice. I've been on the Metrolink more...

 

[ChrisCooper]

Route branding also gives the interest of looking out for branded buses on the wrong routes, or in the case of companies like Trent Barton which don't do that, unbranded spairs on branded routes. I remember when First had the overground branding in Norwich it was quite common to see a number of buses on the wrong routes to the point where a wrong branded bus would be covering for a bus that was on another branded route, covering for another bus on the wrong route etc etc. Leicester and Portsmouth also used to be bad for that.

Although Trent Barton never run branded buses on the wrong routes, their Kinch subsidiary has no such issues. Route 5 branded Solos are standard on the 12 at night (Tempos during the day), and during the University holidays when one less bus is needed on the "Sprint", the spair can turn up on any route (particularly not last summer but the one before when the Dart SLFs on the 2 had big problems leading to not only all the normal spairs and the spair Sprint seeing plenty of use, but also one of the normally school only Olympians).

NCT which has a big branded network usually is quite good at keeping buses on the right route, and has a number of neutral branded spairs, but sometimes branded buses do work the wrong routes. From experiance they are about the same as Blackpool used to be in that respect.

 

[Ivo]

Is this change quite a modern thing then? They still used colour coding when I was there last summer...

Southend used to be terrible for branding issues. Both Arriva and First never seemed to care about what ran where, and so it was perfectly normal for a bus branded 7/8 to end up running the 722 to London! Bit of a difference between Rayleigh and Embankment

Even worse was the X30. In its early days, Solos were common sights on the route, and they (at the time) carried Chelmsford Overground branding...

Credit to Reading; if I may. They use branding all over their operation (as Blackpool used to), and never seem to get it wrong.

 

[umontu]

If my memory serves me correct it was at the end of last summer, I still remember seeing the 16 at my ex's house and that was May.
I seem to remember seeing one of the new busses possibly around August while driving, think that was on 2 or 7 (which came through my town, I see it isn't listed on their map anymore).

Blackpool had a number of Black and Yellow branded busses as spairs, they were ok but looked similar to the 4's.

Stagecoach used to do similar things on the 61, they had branded 68 double deckers which would end up as 61's, no big deal except confusing the old people at Talbot road and forcing other passengers to endure the "It goes round all the houses!!!" line, over and over and over and over and over.... again!

 

[WestCoast]

The route branding was much better, they were very good at keeping the right coloured buses on the right routes. It was extremely rare to see a bus out-of-place, no doubt the pool fleet (that could be used on any route) helped with this.

The change to generic livery coincided with frequency reductions, route changes, capacity reductions and a fare increase. One of the routes between St. Annes and Blackpool used to be run every 15 mins with double deckers and it's now every 30 minutes with minibuses. So, it's gone massively downhill in some areas...

Stagecoach used to do similar things on the 61, they had branded 68 double deckers which would end up as 61's, no big deal except confusing the old people at Talbot road and forcing other passengers to endure the "It goes round all the houses!!!" line, over and over and over and over and over.... again!

The 61 is a bus I sometimes have to use and I loathe it. When Stagecoach owned Preston Bus the buses were more often than not decent, now they've gone back to some older rickety, uncomfortable buses. It seems to always be late and the fares are shockingly high (a dayticket is cheaper than some of the single fares). It also seems to be rammed with free-pass holders!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Meanwhile the tram way, having only lived down the road from Blackpool all my life, I've been on it once or twice. I've been on the Metrolink more...

It has a parallel bus route which is cheaper and accepts free OAP passes, no prizes for guessing what the local people choose. Plus, the tramway seems to be closed eternally except in summer!

 

[umontu]

The 61 is a bus I sometimes have to use and I loathe it. When Stagecoach owned Preston Bus the buses were more often than not decent, now they've gone back to some older rickety, uncomfortable buses. It seems to always be late and the fares are shockingly high (a dayticket is cheaper than some of the single fares). It also seems to be rammed with free-pass holders!

Oh I definately know what you're talking about, the 61 usually was a high floored bus as well which meant free pass holders, used to struggle with the steps too, I don't know the model but they were mostly Volvo's that covered that route. Used to get it during college because the direct bus for me was every two hours! Then that was changed to coastal and no one told the students or the college who all had stagecoach passes and ended up being stuck at the college!

Last time I caught the 61 in January I said to the driver just to Preston and was wondering why I got a day rider, until he said they were cheeper.

I remember when Blackpool council decided to dig up Preston New road too, the 61's were so late they actually arrived on time for the bus behind them... There's some great comunication going on there.

It has a parallel bus route which is cheaper and accepts free OAP passes, no prizes for guessing what the local people choose. Plus, the tramway seems to be closed eternally except in summer!

I think Blackpool just uses them for the tourists, only people I know that use them are from Canada and that's because they're a novelty, then again they think Blackpool is a novelty...

Anyhoo end of my Stagecoach rant, we all know them and what they do...

 

[WestCoast]

I remember when Blackpool council decided to dig up Preston New road too, the 61's were so late they actually arrived on time for the bus behind them... There's some great comunication going on there.

By mid-morning, the 61s seem to be permanently late (anything between 10 mins - 25 mins seems the norm), the problem is they can't keep up with the timetable (which Blackpool - Preston is already over an hour!). They go everywhere now (Clifton, Wrea Green e.t.c) as well, unless you've got a free pass, you'd be mad to get the bus the whole way! Terrible route.

 

[umontu]

By mid-morning, the 61s seem to be permanently late (anything between 10 mins - 25 mins seems the norm), the problem is they can't keep up with the timetable (which Blackpool - Preston is already over an hour!). They go everywhere now (Clifton, Wrea Green e.t.c) as well, unless you've got a free pass, you'd be mad to get the bus the whole way! Terrible route.

Luckily I no longer needed to use the 61 when Wrea Green was added to their route, could never understand that, Wrea Green is a nightmare to drive into to off Blackpool Road, narrow road, mini roundabout, no parking for home owners and BAE Systems plant near by. It leads to huge problems at clocking off time.
More the reason for a station Imho...

 

[Whistler40145]

umonto, Wrea Green was always served when Ribble Motors ran the service No. 154.

 

[cainebj]

The 61 is a bus I sometimes have to use and I loathe it. When Stagecoach owned Preston Bus the buses were more often than not decent, now they've gone back to some older rickety, uncomfortable buses. It seems to always be late and the fares are shockingly high (a dayticket is cheaper than some of the single fares). It also seems to be rammed with free-pass holders!

The vehicles used by Stagecoach on the 61 isn't related in any way to the sale of Preston Bus. Up until September, the 61 was always allocated a Volvo B10M, unless these were unavailable (which was often the case), meaning anything would end up on there.
Since September, Stagecoach gained contract work to operate buses for Preston College. As some runs on the 61 are diverted to Preston College, it was decided to change the 61 route allocation from Volvo B10M to Volvo Olympian. The Volvo B10M's are still on hand to run the 61 when Volvo Olympians aren't available, more often than not on runs that do not serve Preston College. If a B10M ends up on a full allocation, it is always attempted to get a double decker available for the runs that serve the college.

Stagecoach used to do similar things on the 61, they had branded 68 double deckers which would end up as 61's, no big deal except confusing the old people at Talbot road and forcing other passengers to endure the "It goes round all the houses!!!" line, over and over and over and over and over.... again!

68 buses on 61 isn't a bad thing really, makes it easier for the old biddies to get on. Bit of a treat for them, with the 61 not being a low floor route. Rather than this being an "allocation cock-up", it was down to buses not managing to run to time. If a 61 was due out before it even got back in, any bus on layover at Preston would be sent out on time. This could have been a 68 branded Trident (Preston have 4 spare Tridents, so spare ones could have been out while a 68 one was in workshops in the morning. Rather than swap the branded one back over with an unbranded one, they'll keep the 68 restricted to staff shuttle duties, or keep it at the bus station as a spare), or any other bus which happened to be sat at the bus station. It is often the case with buses on the 68 at peak times, often getting Citi 1 or Citi 2 branded Enviro 400's on the 68, while 68 branded Tridents venture off onto 2X2 or the Preston Citi network.

 

[umontu]

umonto, Wrea Green was always served when Ribble Motors ran the service No. 154.

I'm a bit too young to remember that if I'm honest.
I remember the 75 used to call there because I've had to walk from there to Wesham once. The time period I used these busses frequently was 2006-2009.

cainebj, I've seen a 1 as a 68 too. Still it's not as noticable as the old Blackpool Transport's route branding and over 60's seem to not care what they get on provided it gets there without the world exploding or something like that.