Blackpool Transport Discussion

[Leedsbusman]

Slightly off topic but what is the consensus of opinion on route numbering?
a) route numbers only but allowing for grouping so that for example 21 22 and 23 have slight routing variations
b) route numbers with suffixes for slight variations eg 21a 21b 21c

Should high frequency routes / main destination routes have low numbers e.g. 3,4,5,6, and less frequent routes higher numbers 31.32.33.

I thinking getting a consensus of opinion on route numbering conventions is nigh on impossible! Good luck.

 

[LancasterRed]

Blackpool Transport lose the 74/75

https://www.blackpooltransport.com/...8xWv66ZNqSv085M6pxeTiu9-RAYcftyfM9OneFXGoojEo

Our operation of the 74 and 75 bus routes between Preston and Fleetwood will end on 17th August 2024.

These tendered Lancashire County Council routes have been operated by Blackpool Transport since 2020 in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic. We are now looking to re-allocate our resources to the core bus network, which has achieved a level of stability since ‘Routes Reimagined’ in January 2024.

For customers who use the 74 and 75 routes, Lancashire County Council will advertise a new tender for other operators to continue the routes.

Quite the blow, as these services provide a vital network to not only the country villages around Wyre but a fast local service in the towns it serves. They're very well used, which makes me confused as to what the actual issue could be that's led to Blackpool losing them (other than as mentioned, them wanting to strengthen other routes)

I guess it's Stagecoach's turn to run the route.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Blackpool Transport lose the 74/75

https://www.blackpooltransport.com/...8xWv66ZNqSv085M6pxeTiu9-RAYcftyfM9OneFXGoojEo


Quite the blow, as these services provide a vital network to not only the country villages around Wyre but a fast local service in the towns it serves. They're very well used, which makes me confused as to what the actual issue could be that's led to Blackpool losing them (other than as mentioned, them wanting to strengthen other routes)

I guess it's Stagecoach's turn to run the route.

They haven’t ‘lost’ them. They have given notice to terminate the contract. The actual reason will be as they say to strengthen the core network.

 

[philthetube]

Blackpool Transport lose the 74/75

https://www.blackpooltransport.com/...8xWv66ZNqSv085M6pxeTiu9-RAYcftyfM9OneFXGoojEo


Quite the blow, as these services provide a vital network to not only the country villages around Wyre but a fast local service in the towns it serves. They're very well used, which makes me confused as to what the actual issue could be that's led to Blackpool losing them (other than as mentioned, them wanting to strengthen other routes)

I guess it's Stagecoach's turn to run the route.

could well be Preston Bus.

 

[ValleyLines142]

It's a bit difficult to tell with how badly written it is, but there are some cuts I think.

The obvious ones are the 2C (new 5C) and 17 (new 11B) going from 30 to 40 minute intervals. The 11 drops from every 20-ish to every 30 minutes. The 2 and 15 seen to be merged into the 5 group, so I think the total number of buses on the various routes between the town centre and the hospital drops from 8 to 5 or 6 per hour.

With the improvements to the 5 and 6 I guess it might be a wash in terms of vehicles required.

The 11 with the combined 11a and 11b now means there's a roughly 15 minutes headway between Lytham and Blackpool.

 

[gomango]

Blackpool Transport lose the 74/75

https://www.blackpooltransport.com/...8xWv66ZNqSv085M6pxeTiu9-RAYcftyfM9OneFXGoojEo


Quite the blow, as these services provide a vital network to not only the country villages around Wyre but a fast local service in the towns it serves. They're very well used, which makes me confused as to what the actual issue could be that's led to Blackpool losing them (other than as mentioned, them wanting to strengthen other routes)

That's a shame. It's a pretty handy service that I used with a all network ticket. I was on the 75 today and it was packed full!

 

[LancasterRed]

could well be Preston Bus.

Archway going in for it, according to their director on Facebook

It has now been confirmed that Blackpool have handed it back, given the history of this service it is an easy assumption that something more serious had happened.

I'd be shocked if Preston Bus got it back.

 

[philthetube]

Transpora are another option. Though they would need more space for parking.

 

[AlastairFraser]

That's a shame. It's a pretty handy service that I used with a all network ticket. I was on the 75 today and it was packed full!

Yes, I also have a feeling this will make it less viable in future, as people going into Blackpool from the villages and the suburban bits of Wyre will have to pay twice. I expect some will just drive into Blackpool and park on the back streets outside of the peaks.

 

[buslad1988]

Blackpool Transport lose the 74/75

https://www.blackpooltransport.com/...8xWv66ZNqSv085M6pxeTiu9-RAYcftyfM9OneFXGoojEo


Quite the blow, as these services provide a vital network to not only the country villages around Wyre but a fast local service in the towns it serves. They're very well used, which makes me confused as to what the actual issue could be that's led to Blackpool losing them (other than as mentioned, them wanting to strengthen other routes)

That’s quite unusual to hand a contract back mid-term as it loses them guaranteed income. As mentioned these complimented their network well and added value to period passes etc. Maybe their bid was too low in the first place? Seems a shame when comments on here say it’s quite a busy service - if it’s that viable why not create a commercial service on the busiest section. Them saying it’s to strengthen their other routes does seem like a convenient excuse - be interesting to see if anything comes to fruition.

Aren’t the 74/75 bits and pieces of the old 2/2A etc from Metro Coastlines days?

 

[AlastairFraser]

That’s quite unusual to hand a contract back mid-term as it loses them guaranteed income. As mentioned these complimented their network well and added value to period passes etc. Maybe their bid was too low in the first place? Seems a shame when comments on here say it’s quite a busy service - if it’s that viable why not create a commercial service on the busiest section. Them saying it’s to strengthen their other routes does seem like a convenient excuse - be interesting to see if anything comes to fruition.

Aren’t the 74/75 bits and pieces of the old 2/2A etc from Metro Coastlines days?

Maybe they're really struggling with driver shortages, there's a lot of bus operators with jobs within a 45 min drive of Blackpool and I'm not sure if their salaries are particularly competitive.

 

[Leedsbusman]

That’s quite unusual to hand a contract back mid-term as it loses them guaranteed income.

But saves them guaranteed costs which probably by now exceed the revenue.

 

[domcoop7]

The 11 with the combined 11a and 11b now means there's a roughly 15 minutes headway between Lytham and Blackpool.

Despite living in the North West for the last 43 years, I visited Lytham for the first time last Saturday, and being on "dog duty" - keeping the dogs outside whilst the Mrs partook in retail therapy - one thing that struck me was the number of buses! It *seemed* much more than 15 minutes - more like Oxford Road Manchester levels! Blackpool transport, Rotala / Preston and Stagecoach just seemed to come one after another. Well used as well from what I could tell. Obviously I wasn't stood there with a stopwatch, so the anecdote / data caveat applies.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Despite living in the North West for the last 43 years, I visited Lytham for the first time last Saturday, and being on "dog duty" - keeping the dogs outside whilst the Mrs partook in retail therapy - one thing that struck me was the number of buses! It *seemed* much more than 15 minutes - more like Oxford Road Manchester levels! Blackpool transport, Rotala / Preston and Stagecoach just seemed to come one after another. Well used as well from what I could tell. Obviously I wasn't stood there with a stopwatch, so the anecdote / data caveat applies.

I think there's quite a lot of subsidised routes round the villages and towns of Fylde leaving at the same or similar times.

 

[158756]

Despite living in the North West for the last 43 years, I visited Lytham for the first time last Saturday, and being on "dog duty" - keeping the dogs outside whilst the Mrs partook in retail therapy - one thing that struck me was the number of buses! It *seemed* much more than 15 minutes - more like Oxford Road Manchester levels! Blackpool transport, Rotala / Preston and Stagecoach just seemed to come one after another. Well used as well from what I could tell. Obviously I wasn't stood there with a stopwatch, so the anecdote / data caveat applies.

Between Lytham and Blackpool (via various different routes) Blackpool Transport run the 11 and 11A (roughly every 15 minutes combined), and 11B (every 40 minutes, doesn't really share much route with the other 11s other than it goes to Lytham), Stagecoach have the 68 (Blackpool - Preston, every 20 minutes) and Preston Bus currently run the 76 (which goes via Kirkham and Poulton, not a route you would ever actually use to get between Lytham and Blackpool). In Lytham you might also see the 78 (St Annes to Great Eccleston), also currently run by Preston Bus.

 

[daodao]

Between Lytham and Blackpool (via various different routes) Blackpool Transport run the 11 and 11A (roughly every 15 minutes combined), and 11B (every 40 minutes, doesn't really share much route with the other 11s other than it goes to Lytham), Stagecoach have the 68 (every 20 minutes) and Preston Bus run the 76 (which goes via Kirkham and Poulton, not a route you would ever actually to get between Lytham and Blackpool).

I visited Lytham Hall a couple of months ago (to see the snowdrops) and then made a bus journey to Blackpool town centre and back (route 11 in, route 68 back). I was quite impressed with both services and their frequency, although the journey took quite a long time (over 30 minutes). Both buses were well used and justified the provision of double deck vehicles. A complete contrast to bus routes serving Altrincham and East Cheshire, most of which are at best hourly and run by single deck vehicles or minibuses such as the Mellor Strata.

 

[philthetube]

When are we likely to hear who gets the 74/75 routes.

 

[Bungle965]

Mod Note
Discussions around the 74/75 being awarded to Archway Travel have been split into another thread:

Link to new thread

 

[JD2168]

It appears that Blackpool Transport has an ADL E400EV on loan mainly appearing on 14.

 

[Bovverboy]

According to 'Bus Lists On The Web' Blackpool has received 117 new buses since 2015 - 59 'deckers and 58 saloons. I know that all the 16 plate 'deckers have gone, but has anything else? Or is the current fleet strength 107?

 

[Leedsbusman]

According to 'Bus Lists On The Web' Blackpool has received 117 new buses since 2015 - 59 'deckers and 58 saloons. I know that all the 16 plate 'deckers have gone, but has anything else? Or is the current fleet strength 107?

The current fleet is 49 E400s, 26 long E200s 22 short ones and five Citaros =102

 

[Bovverboy]

The current fleet is 49 E400s, 26 long E200s 22 short ones and five Citaros =102

Thanks for that. I've now checked out the Citaros and find that 550-3 appeared with new owners in early 2023. I see that 554 became a trainer, so may still be in use as such.
As far as I know 403-10 went to Vision in 2023, so that's quite a fleet reduction in a short space of time.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Thanks for that. I've now checked out the Citaros and find that 550-3 appeared with new owners in early 2023. I see that 554 became a trainer, so may still be in use as such.
As far as I know 403-10 went to Vision in 2023, so that's quite a fleet reduction in a short space of time.

403-410 left in 2022. The fleet reduction reflects the PVR reduction with most services still running on a reduced frequency v 2019.

 

[Bovverboy]

403-410 left in 2022.

Indeed, I'd been led astray by the fact that Vision initially used them in Blackpool livery. That's something I was well aware of, but still managed to misinterpret some photos as being Blackpool, when they were in fact Vision.

 

[Mag_seven]

Indeed, I'd been led astray by the fact that Vision initially used them in Blackpool livery. That's something I was well aware of, but still managed to misinterpret some photos as being Blackpool, when they were in fact Vision.

Thread reopened for an update.

 

[buslad1988]

Blackpools last five remaining Mercedes Benz Citaro’s have appeared for sale:

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd 01403 756 804 / 07950 616 106, Founded in 2016 by Director Steve Swain who has over 30 years’ experience in the UK Bus and Coach industry. Chartwell offers a wide range of new and used buses and coaches, from 22 seats through to 80 + to suit all specifications and budgets.

www.chartwellbussales.co.uk

Also the training vehicle:

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd 01403 756 804 / 07950 616 106, Founded in 2016 by Director Steve Swain who has over 30 years’ experience in the UK Bus and Coach industry. Chartwell offers a wide range of new and used buses and coaches, from 22 seats through to 80 + to suit all specifications and budgets.

www.chartwellbussales.co.uk

Does anyone know what’s replacing these in the fleet? With the continual service enhancements I can’t see how they’d have the spare capacity to simply off load them.

Also is there any news on their electric fleet yet?

 

[Leedsbusman]

Blackpools last five remaining Mercedes Benz Citaro’s have appeared for sale:

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd 01403 756 804 / 07950 616 106, Founded in 2016 by Director Steve Swain who has over 30 years’ experience in the UK Bus and Coach industry. Chartwell offers a wide range of new and used buses and coaches, from 22 seats through to 80 + to suit all specifications and budgets.

www.chartwellbussales.co.uk

Also the training vehicle:

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd 01403 756 804 / 07950 616 106, Founded in 2016 by Director Steve Swain who has over 30 years’ experience in the UK Bus and Coach industry. Chartwell offers a wide range of new and used buses and coaches, from 22 seats through to 80 + to suit all specifications and budgets.

www.chartwellbussales.co.uk

Does anyone know what’s replacing these in the fleet? With the continual service enhancements I can’t see how they’d have the spare capacity to simply off load them.

Also is there any news on their electric fleet yet?

I’m sure they can cope with five fewer vehicles as their PVR is about 80 and fleet 102!

 

[citybus2500]

Blackpools last five remaining Mercedes Benz Citaro’s have appeared for sale:

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd 01403 756 804 / 07950 616 106, Founded in 2016 by Director Steve Swain who has over 30 years’ experience in the UK Bus and Coach industry. Chartwell offers a wide range of new and used buses and coaches, from 22 seats through to 80 + to suit all specifications and budgets.

www.chartwellbussales.co.uk

Also the training vehicle:

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd

Chartwell Bus Sales Ltd 01403 756 804 / 07950 616 106, Founded in 2016 by Director Steve Swain who has over 30 years’ experience in the UK Bus and Coach industry. Chartwell offers a wide range of new and used buses and coaches, from 22 seats through to 80 + to suit all specifications and budgets.

www.chartwellbussales.co.uk

Does anyone know what’s replacing these in the fleet? With the continual service enhancements I can’t see how they’d have the spare capacity to simply off load them.

Also is there any news on their electric fleet yet?

The "continual service enhancements" have barely increased PVR and certainly didn't take up all the buses freed by dumping the 74/75 contracts.

I’m sure they can cope with five fewer vehicles as their PVR is about 80 and fleet 102!

Indeed. The question should be more why haven't they flogged them sooner!! Mind, an all ADL fleet might actually need 20+% spares.

Are they converting E200s to trainers, although 3 training buses need seem excessive.

 

[Andyh82]

Blackpool often get involved in extensive rail replacement contracts, including on weekdays and Saturdays, so they clearly have a lot of spare capacity

 

[Bovverboy]

Blackpool often get involved in extensive rail replacement contracts, including on weekdays and Saturdays, so they clearly have a lot of spare capacity

The huge influx of new Alexander Dennis DDs in 2016/7 was essentially to use them on rail replacement work while the Preston to Blackpool line was being electrified; when the electrification was complete the buses were to be cascaded to Blackpool's local services, that was the idea.