Blackpool to London who would use the service?

[142094]

I've just lol-ed so much at the past few posts. There's serious proposals, then fantasy services, and then there's this...

Nothing like having an idea, but then again if it is obvious it wouldn't work then I don't see the point.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Mine is a serious proposal! I have heard so many people complain saying that Blackpool needs more services, there are 8 platforms going to waste!

So because it has eight platforms they all must be filled? That will be a 700% increase in services to Skegness then too.

Nothing like having an idea, but then again if it is obvious it wouldn't work then I don't see the point.

Quite.

 

[ValleyLines142]

So because it has eight platforms they all must be filled? That will be a 700% increase in services to Skegness then too.

Nooooo what I mean is that there is a chance to introduce new services with eight platforms. If it was only a 3 or 4 platform station then there might be issues but with 8 you can do so much. Blackpool has four trains an hour, all of which leave within twenty minutes of each other so I think something could be done. It's worth a try at least! Is it not?

 

[dk1]

Mind you only Blackpool service i would use in reality on a frequent basis would be a Pendo/Voyager from Euston with a journey time of under 3hrs.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

11tph though? From October-May Blackpool would barely warrant an extra shuttle to Preston. Besides, many tourists actually use the Blackpool South services I find, those could do with an increase.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Mind you only Blackpool service i would use in reality on a frequent basis would be a Pendo/Voyager from Euston with a journey time of under 3hrs.

A London service is so on the cards here. There could even be a super-fast service in the morning, calling at Manchester only, straight to London before 9!

 

[tbtc]

A London service is so on the cards here. There could even be a super-fast service in the morning, calling at Manchester only, straight to London before 9!

Why would a super-fast Blackpool - London service go via London?

Wouldn't it be even more superer/faster if it ran directly down the WCML from Preston via Crewe etc?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Why would a super-fast Blackpool - London service go via London?

Wouldn't it be even more superer/faster if it ran directly down the WCML from Preston via Crewe etc?

Bit of a flaw in your first sentence

Plus, heading via Chorley to Manchester in the morning peak, you'll be lucky to clear it at any speed when you bear in mind it is almost at capacity from Bolton-Stockport!

 

[ValleyLines142]

11tph though? From October-May Blackpool would barely warrant an extra shuttle to Preston. Besides, many tourists actually use the Blackpool South services I find, those could do with an increase.

Well maybe 1 or 2 shuttles to Preston then. I'm thinking similarly along the lines of Bognor Regis-Barnham, where connections can be made to London Victoria and Southampton/Portsmouth.

I personally think that Blackpool South could be half-hourly too but its single track so not sure whether it would work.
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Why would a super-fast Blackpool - London service go via London?

Wouldn't it be even more superer/faster if it ran directly down the WCML from Preston via Crewe etc?

Whatever is the fastest way! Maybe a stop at Manchester isn't needed as they already have 3tph to London.
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Why would a super-fast Blackpool - London service go via London?

From Blackpool to London via Manchester silly :P
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Bit of a flaw in your first sentence

Plus, heading via Chorley to Manchester in the morning peak, you'll be lucky to clear it at any speed when you bear in mind it is almost at capacity from Bolton-Stockport!

I'd scrap the Manchester call, unless it could go via Wigan.

 

[Lampshade]

A London service is so on the cards here. There could even be a super-fast service in the morning, calling at Manchester only, straight to London before 9!

Or if we're being completely stupid, xx00 off Blackpool North and calling only at Salwick.

 

[tbtc]

I would have thought there would be a market for a through train from Edinburgh - Glasgow - Blackpool on summer Saturdays.
When I've been at Preston in the summer a good number seem to be changing for Blackpool off Scottish trains.

Good to see a sensible comment on this thread...

Yes, a Scottish service would be busy (especially from the Glasgow area - make sure it stops at Motherwell too).

There are a lot of places in Northern England that lack a Blackpool service - I know a few Sheffield people who have had touristy trips to Cleethorpes/ Bridlington/ Scarborough in recent years because there are direct trains. We lost our Blackpool service when Manchester Airport started sucking in more and more services. Similarly, there's probably a market for Newcastle - Blackpool (though I'm always surprised that there aren't regular Newcastle - Whitby services or Liverpool - North Wales services...).

Whilst I am usually banging on about how good regular clockface timetables are, one regret is that we have lost the kind of "weekend special" services that would work well with "tourists" (since weekends tend to replicate the weekday service).

(but there is more to Blackpool than just tourism - I should add)

Also worthy of a mention would be direct services from Lytham etc to Manchester/Liverpool (and not just Colne) - there's a decent population down the coast there. Maybe there's no scope for more than an hourly service, but some of those could vary their destinations...
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Bit of a flaw in your first sentence

:hame::

 

[Bevan Price]

I would have thought there would be a market for a through train from Edinburgh - Glasgow - Blackpool on summer Saturdays.
When I've been at Preston in the summer a good number seem to be changing for Blackpool off Scottish trains.

There was one last summer. TPE, 10:10 Glasgow - Blackpool, portion of 09:52 Edinburgh - Manchester Airport service, attached at Carlisle, detached at Preston, plus a corresponding return service from Blackpool to Glasgow (SO, 25 June until 10 Sept.)

As for Euston - Blackpool, I doubt there is much demand for anything more than an early morning departure from Blackpool and a late afternoon return from Euston. Outside the peak holiday season, the other Euston / Blackpool services were pretty lightly loaded between Preston & Blackpool when I used to ride on the diesel-hauled trains over this section in the 1970s/1980's.

 

[WestCoast]

(but there is more to Blackpool than just tourism - I should add)

Also worthy of a mention would be direct services from Lytham etc to Manchester/Liverpool (and not just Colne) - there's a decent population down the coast there. Maybe there's no scope for more than an hourly service, but some of those could vary their destinations...

Yes!

Stuff the tourists, there is a sizable population living on the Fylde Coast! I may be a tad biased, but I'd rather see an upgrade to the Blackpool South line, rather than a direct London link from Blackpool North. That would be of more use to people I reckon. It's a great line with a major USP - it serves the Pleasure Beach, the top attraction for many, many visitors. It also serves Blackpool Airport, and Lytham St Annes.

A Blackpool South - Manchester Victoria service would be excellent. The current Blackpool South - Colne service usually experiences a 'changeover of passengers' at Preston - almost all of the train empties there and a new load get on. It's rarely used as a through service.

Please no 'Blackpool themed trains', when your nearest large town is that place, you get very sick of stag and hen parties, kiss me quick hats and all that tat. Already some of the trains coming in from Preston on summer weekends are getting a bit of a reputation. Sorry to be a 'party pooper'...

 

[dzug2]

You could always have a party of stag hunters join the train at Crewe. Just need a kitchen car with a barbecue

 

[WestCoast]

The Blackpool Airport development charge is the reason Ryanair pulled out of Blackpool.

I live close to the airport and that's the cover story. There's more to it than that. A change of airport ownership meant that Ryanair were no longer getting their own way with heavily reduced fees, which they rely on to a turn a profit on some routes. They were struggling to fill a twice daily 189 seater aircraft down to Stansted (which as we all know is not really London), so they withdrew that route. I know the loads were down to 40% in winter months, where the Ryanair average is around 75%-80% in winter. Their aircraft are just too large and expensive to run on that route, they can make much more money elsewhere.

The Dublin and Gerona routes went the same way, just not profitable enough for them. The ADF was the nail in the coffin, but the performance of the routes was not great at all.

 

[tbtc]

Please no 'Blackpool themed trains', when your nearest large town is that place, you get very sick of stag and hen parties, kiss me quick hats and all that tat. Already some of the trains coming in from Preston on summer weekends are getting a bit of a reputation.

This is what I was getting at, with the patronising comments at the start of this thread. There's quite a large population in Blackpool/ Fleetwood/ Lytham, yet the rest of the country tends to treat it like a cross between Benidorm and Alton Towers.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Yes!

Stuff the tourists, there is a sizable population living on the Fylde Coast! I may be a tad biased, but I'd rather see an upgrade to the Blackpool South line, rather than a direct London link from Blackpool North. That would be of more use to people I reckon. It's a great line with a major USP - it serves the Pleasure Beach, the top attraction for many, many visitors. It also serves Blackpool Airport, and Lytham St Annes.

A Blackpool South - Manchester Victoria service would be excellent. The current Blackpool South - Colne service usually experiences a 'changeover of passengers' at Preston - almost all of the train empties there and a new load get on. It's rarely used as a through service.

Please no 'Blackpool themed trains', when your nearest large town is that place, you get very sick of stag and hen parties, kiss me quick hats and all that tat. Already some of the trains coming in from Preston on summer weekends are getting a bit of a reputation.

Blackpool South is very heavily used and deserves a much better service. It serves a huge population inc St Annes/ Lytham. A Manchester train would be spot on, and capacity should be improved from 1tph, to 4tph. Would require passing loops or double track. ...to think it was the main route in the 60's.

Theme - Paint donkeys on the pacer trains - very seaside!!
Seriously imo there should be a universal livery for all trains. The TOC's just applying their individual decals.

 

[WestCoast]

This is what I was getting at, with the patronising comments at the start of this thread. There's quite a large population in Blackpool/ Fleetwood/ Lytham, yet the rest of the country tends to treat it like a cross between Benidorm and Alton Towers.

Yes, exactly. Lytham St Annes, Thornton-Cleveleys, Fleetwood and Poulton are all towns in their own right, and Blackpool has suburbs which are normal residential areas, not a B&B or arcade in sight. This is really the market for London trains, not Londoners coming on an "ironic weekend break".
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Blackpool South is very heavily used and deserves a much better service. It serves a huge population inc St Annes/ Lytham..

You're absolutely right.

 

[Bevan Price]

Blackpool South is very heavily used and deserves a much better service. It serves a huge population inc St Annes/ Lytham. A Manchester train would be spot on, and capacity should be improved from 1tph, to 4tph. Would require passing loops or double track. ...to think it was the main route in the 60's.

.

And to think that the former Blackpool council favoured the closure of Blackpool Central, so that they could use the trackbed as a car park. Thanks to that stupid move, we now have a terminus (Blackpool South) over a mile from the town centre. So, passengers have either a long walk, or must get a bus (most of which originate in Lytham or St. Annes, which most of the locals use instead of the train if they want to get to Blackpool town centre by public transport.)

And yes - Blackpool Central to Manchester Victoria was the main service until Central was closed.

 

[Masbroughlad]

When did it close exactly? Any chance of it re-opening? (think I know the negative answer to that!)

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Seriously imo there should be a universal livery for all trains. The TOC's just applying their individual decals.

How about 2 versions .....Blue and grey for long distance trains , and all over blue for local trains . Yellow ends of course.

 

[northwichcat]

Plus, heading via Chorley to Manchester in the morning peak, you'll be lucky to clear it at any speed when you bear in mind it is almost at capacity from Bolton-Stockport!

I suggested sending a Blackpool to London via Bolton service via the Styal line in the original post. It could replace the existing Blackpool to Airport service with either the Liverpool-Blackpool or York-Blackpool picking up the stops between Preston and Blackpool and timetable revisions between Preston and Manchester ensuring no station gets less services.
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Blackpool South is very heavily used and deserves a much better service. It serves a huge population inc St Annes/ Lytham. A Manchester train would be spot on, and capacity should be improved from 1tph, to 4tph. Would require passing loops or double track. ...to think it was the main route in the 60's.

There used to be a daily St Annes to Greenbank service - not that it was much use at the time it ran at!

I suggested giving a daily through return service at useful times between Cheshire and the Blackpool South branch before, given a lot of coach trips go between Cheshire and Lytham/Blackpool at present.

 

[merlodlliw]

And to think that the former Blackpool council favoured the closure of Blackpool Central, so that they could use the trackbed as a car park. Thanks to that stupid move, we now have a terminus (Blackpool South) over a mile from the town centre. So, passengers have either a long walk, or must get a bus (most of which originate in Lytham or St. Annes, which most of the locals use instead of the train if they want to get to Blackpool town centre by public transport.)

And yes - Blackpool Central to Manchester Victoria was the main service until Central was closed.

Indeed shame on Blackpool Council, even in BRs Stalinist days, a decision that surprised almost everyone.
Even Beeching recommended keeping Central open,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackpool_Central_railway_station

 

[ivanhoe]

When electrified, through trains will be a winner here provided they get the number and stopping times correct. Probably cannot justify one per hour but could certainly do a number of trains per day .

There is a much under estimated population on the Fylde Coast .
Stopping patterns will have to be Preston, Wigan, Warrington,Crewe Stafford and /or Nuneaton

Huge potential for Glasgow market in summer/ lights season.

 

[snail]

Huge potential for Glasgow market in summer/ lights season.

But why should electrification make any difference? TPE have tried the single weekend service, wouldn't they have extended it if it was popular by swapping units from the Scotland-Manchester and Manchester-Blackpool services at Preston?

The swap/reverse at Preston is always going to be an issue for this route.

 

[Nym]

But why should electrification make any difference? TPE have tried the single weekend service, wouldn't they have extended it if it was popular by swapping units from the Scotland-Manchester and Manchester-Blackpool services at Preston?

The swap/reverse at Preston is always going to be an issue for this route.

Unless you run via

Glasgow C - Carlisle - Settle - Hellefeild - Clitheroe - Blackburn - Lostock Hall - Preston - Blackpool North...

 

[tbtc]

But why should electrification make any difference? TPE have tried the single weekend service, wouldn't they have extended it if it was popular by swapping units from the Scotland-Manchester and Manchester-Blackpool services at Preston?

The swap/reverse at Preston is always going to be an issue for this route.

The stopping pattern in Ivanhoe's suggestion are for a London service.

At the moment TPE don't have any spare units to provide a Scottish service to/from Blackpool.

Once the Blackpool line is electrified later in the decade there will be more EMUs around and therefore more scope for giving Blackpool a service to/from Scotland/London.

 

[snail]

The stopping pattern in Ivanhoe's suggestion are for a London service.

At the moment TPE don't have any spare units to provide a Scottish service to/from Blackpool.

Once the Blackpool line is electrified later in the decade there will be more EMUs around and therefore more scope for giving Blackpool a service to/from Scotland/London.

I see that but what's to stop them splitting one of the 6-car trains at Preston and attaching it to a Blackpool service?

 

[ashworth]

There are a lot of places in Northern England that lack a Blackpool service - I know a few Sheffield people who have had touristy trips to Cleethorpes/ Bridlington/ Scarborough in recent years because there are direct trains. We lost our Blackpool service when Manchester Airport started sucking in more and more services.

I have friends who live near Blackpool and 2 or 3 times a year do a Nottingham to Blackpool return journey. Whenever I do this journey and change at Manchester Piccadilly there are usually a large number of other passengers that I see on both trains. A Sheffield to Blackpool service would be a good idea and if ever an additional service each hour is introduced between Sheffield and Manchester this should be a priority.

It isn't just a service from Sheffield to Blackpool that is important but also the links to Bolton and even more so Preston for connections to the WCML.
The connections at Preston perhaps also suggest that a through Nottingham-Blackpool service should also be introduced, or reintroduced as they did run during the 1980's.

 

[Nym]

But in a time with a lack of good reigonal rolling stock, what would you run the service with?

Especially when Manchester - Blackpool will shortly be dominated by 3, 4, 6 and possibly 8 car EMUs (If modifications happen)...

If you could either have a Sheffeild - Blackpool service, OR 4 & 6 carriage trains on all services between Sheffeild and Manchester, what would you rather have?