Blackpool to London who would use the service?

[northwichcat]

A while back I suggested a Blackpool to London service could take the form of a Blackpool-Bolton-Manchester Airport-London service and in the past few days someone else suggested Blackpool-Wigan-Liverpool-Crewe-London. Both times the criticism against such ideas is the end to end times would be longer than changing at Preston. However, what's not been taken in to consideration is who would use the service.

When the long intercity services used to run between Blackpool and London they were seen as non-economically viable as few business travellers travelled between Blackpool and London and the only time they were well used was during political conferences.

Then NWT introduced a 158 operated service, which had mainly standard class, obviously operated at 90mph top speed (compared to the 110mph that Virgin services had at the time) and followed a less direct route with more stops. These proved popular and were only withdrawn due to Virgin applying for competition protection. The services were due to be upgraded to larger class 180 trains.

Now if the main traffic is holiday makers they'll probably prefer a direct train taking a longer time over changing, while if it's business travellers they'll prefer the fastest journey time. I can't see there being much of a business market for London to Blackpool, so is the fast direct train really the best option or would using a less direct route and giving places such as Bolton a direct London service work out better overall?

 

[gordonthemoron]

do you really think Blackpool holidaymakers come from London?

 

[northwichcat]

do you really think Blackpool holidaymakers come from London?

No. That's why I'm saying a slower stopping Blackpool-London service may be better than a fast express service, as was the case in the past by an Intercity Blackpool-London service failing and a NWT Blackpool-London service being quite successful.

 

[142094]

IMO the main thing that any open access operator needs is to first link up towns and villages within a certain area (be it the NW or for example all the stations north of York on GC's Sunderland route). Then it has to link with a major city, no doubt somewhere like London. Bit of a balance between a local inter-urban operator and a long-distance operator linking a couple of major urban areas together.

I'd have thought that a Blackpool - London service via Bolton and Man Airport would be a good shout compared to a Blackpool - Liverpool - London service. Blackpool - London via Bolton/Man Airport would probably be a good contender with Virgin from Preston or even Manchester Piccadilly, but going via Liverpool would probably add so much time that no-one (even those who prefer direct services) would use it throughout. Then all you are basically catering for is the Liverpool - London flow.

 

[route:oxford]

Do you really think Blackpool holidaymakers come from London?

Erm, yes. It's a popular "ironic" weekend break for city folk.

What would probably work well is a weekly "city break" service running from Blackpool at 14.30 on a Friday afternoon, arriving at a London Terminal at 17.30(ish) Returning as an "Ironic Break" to Blackpool at 18.30. Fish & Chips and champagne for First Ticket Holders, sticks of rock for Standard.

Return Sunday service would probably be similar. 14:00 from Blackpool, 18:00 from London.

Probably a West Coast Rail srevice, but perhaps hire in a Chiltern/Aylesbury Mk3 loco hauled set instead.

 

[snail]

IMO the main thing that any open access operator needs is to first link up towns and villages within a certain area (be it the NW or for example all the stations north of York on GC's Sunderland route). Then it has to link with a major city, no doubt somewhere like London. Bit of a balance between a local inter-urban operator and a long-distance operator linking a couple of major urban areas together.

I'd have thought that a Blackpool - London service via Bolton and Man Airport would be a good shout compared to a Blackpool - Liverpool - London service.

Yes, better than Liverpool as you gain little over existing routes. Via Birmingham could add a useful link to the Airport and NW but all of these options add time and reduce convenience for the longer distance traveller.

 

[paul1609]

Erm, yes. It's a popular "ironic" weekend break for city folk.

What would probably work well is a weekly "city break" service running from Blackpool at 14.30 on a Friday afternoon, arriving at a London Terminal at 17.30(ish) Returning as an "Ironic Break" to Blackpool at 18.30. Fish & Chips and champagne for First Ticket Holders, sticks of rock for Standard.

Return Sunday service would probably be similar. 14:00 from Blackpool, 18:00 from London.

Probably a West Coast Rail srevice, but perhaps hire in a Chiltern/Aylesbury Mk3 loco hauled set instead.

I think you are mistaken the London to Blackpool leisure market is next to nothing mainly because there are much better resorts on the Southcoast (Brighton, Bournemouth to name just a couple).
Most people in the South have rarely if ever travelled to the north, those that do envariably do so by car so they can tour areas like the lakes, dales and moors.

 

[lookingforit35]

I think you are mistaken the London to Blackpool leisure market is next to nothing mainly because there are much better resorts on the Southcoast (Brighton, Bournemouth to name just a couple).
Most people in the South have rarely if ever travelled to the north, those that do envariably do so by car so they can tour areas like the lakes, dales and moors.

I remember Ryanair tried a Blackpool service from London a while back, I seem to think it was aimed at least partly at the Stag weekend kind of traveller. They dont have this route any more so I guess it didnt pay it's way.

Whilst not a huge Ryanair fan myself, they are a great economic barometer so I would venture that if it was profitable they would absolutely have kept it. Unless O'Leary had some sort of spat with the airport operator of course!

 

[Nym]

He may well have done, Blackpool Airport introduced a £10 Development Charge a while back (payable by pax)

 

[lookingforit35]

Payable by Pax? Never a problem to O'Leary.

Payable to Ryanair? Reason enough to cry like a spoilt child!

 

[northwichcat]

The Blackpool Airport development charge is the reason Ryanair pulled out of Blackpool.

O'Leary describes a lot of Ryanair's charges as optional:
* Hold baggage- you don't have to take hold baggage with you
* Card payment fee/admin charge - pay with a Ryanair Mastercard
* Food on board - don't eat
etc.

However, he can't get out of the development fee without saying 'fly from another airport' in which case passengers may say 'OK. Let's fly from Liverpool' and in doing so they fly with EasyJet instead.

 

[Aictos]

Let Grand Central run their Euston to Blackpool services, I for one would certainly welcome them with open arms

 

[jon0844]

Instead of standard and first, I'd configure any train to be hens at one end, stags at the other, with a bar in the middle...

TMs could ditch their clippers and ticket machines for a bucket and mop.

 

[route:oxford]

I think you are mistaken the London to Blackpool leisure market is next to nothing mainly because there are much better resorts on the Southcoast (Brighton, Bournemouth to name just a couple).
Most people in the South have rarely if ever travelled to the north, those that do envariably do so by car so they can tour areas like the lakes, dales and moors.

The point of an "ironic" weekend break is that it's to somewhere that isn't "better".

It's a trip to laugh at poor people, the obese and to wear "kiss me quick" hats.

 

[gordonthemoron]

you could always have a brothel car too

 

[Nym]

gordon, you don't need one if you're travelling via Manchester, plenty with 5 mins of Piccadilly... I know of two places I could 'score' within 10secs of walking through the door...

 

[jon0844]

you could always have a brothel car too

Would the train crew earn commission on this?

 

[tbtc]

Does anyone else feel slightly patronised by comments on here?

If there are Blackpool - London trains then these ought to be equivalent to the current Lancaster - London services (either a direct replacement of some Lancaster terminators, post electrification, or a bi hourly Blackpool service alongside a bi-hourly Lancaster service *if* the Glasgow services are sped up south of Preston - with the Blackpool/Lancaster service taking stops like Warrington instead).

I don't think Blackpool requires any "special" service (with a separate carriage for buckets/ spades or any other nonsense). Maybe there's not a huge business market from Blackpool to London, but is there a huge business market for Penzance - London? Or Skipton - London? Or...

 

[merlodlliw]

Does anyone else feel slightly patronised by comments on here?

You mean the knocking shop comments, unknown in Wales

Blackpool has a hefty winter population, but is London a magnet for 140K


Bob

 

[Essexman]

I would have thought there would be a market for a through train from Edinburgh - Glasgow - Blackpool on summer Saturdays.
When I've been at Preston in the summer a good number seem to be changing for Blackpool off Scottish trains.

 

[ValleyLines142]

YES YES!!!!!!!!!!

A London-Blackpool service would prove popular with people on the South Coast and Kent. And I could get it from Cardiff and meet it up somewhere on the line as I go to Blackpool regularly. It would also improve their dire 4tph service from North Station.

 

[dk1]

Blackpool is a huge draw & through London services loaded reasonably well. Trouble is they where often in marginal times for the fleet & not necessarily when the majority of the passengers wanted to travel. I sometimes used the 10.xx HST off Euston which often had over 100 alight at North station. Others where early morning 'up' or late evening return. Other problems where the cost of dragging sets off the wires.

Yes, a large percentage will be stag/hen parties & whether the operator will promote this market will be interesting. Ok they are group bookings who often spend well at the buffet bar but also annoy other passengers & can be loud & intimidating.

One thing that is obvious at Preston is the large amount of connecting passengers for the Fylde coast so there must be a good opportunity to build on it.

 

[asylumxl]

(large amount of yes removed) YES!!!!!!!!!!

Having a crisis there mate?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

A London-Blackpool service would prove popular with people on the South Coast and Kent. And I could get it from Cardiff and meet it up somewhere on the line as I go to Blackpool regularly. It would also improve their dire 4tph service from North Station.

I feel sorry for the poor bloke who reads that post on a BlackBerry :roll:

I wouldn't real call 4tph; 2 of which serve Manchester, 1 of which serves Leeds and 1 of which serves Liverpool dire!

 

[ValleyLines142]

I feel sorry for the poor bloke who reads that post on a BlackBerry :roll:

I wouldn't real call 4tph; 2 of which serve Manchester, 1 of which serves Leeds and 1 of which serves Liverpool dire!

Well considering it's one of the most popular seaside resorts in the country you'd think there'd be more services. It's not dire in the places it serves, more to do with the frequency. If I had it my way, I'd have 2tph to Manchester (both to Piccadilly - not sure whether Victoria is really worth it as there are more connections from Piccadilly - for example when I go to Cardiff I obviously have to go through Piccadilly), 2tph to Liverpool, 1tph to York, 1tph to London, 2tph to Edinburgh/Glasgow and 3tph to Preston to connect with other services. I bet you now there'll be several post saying 'no no this wouldn't work blah blah not enough rolling stock or its too expensive' lol.

 

[Class377/5]

As someone who lives in London I'd like to see a Euston - Blackpool service. I would travel on it as I have a soft spot for Blackpool.

 

[ValleyLines142]

As someone who lives in London I'd like to see a Euston - Blackpool service. I would travel on it as I have a soft spot for Blackpool.

Yes, I agree, I have a soft spot for Blackpool too. I would have it running fast, calling at Preston, Bolton, Manchester Piccadilly, Stoke-on-Trent and London. A Voyager or 180 would be perfect.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I've just lol-ed so much at the past few posts. There's serious proposals, then fantasy services, and then there's this...

 

[dk1]

Im looking forward to a long weekend in Blackpool next April, travelling up from deepest darkest Norfolk. The resort never pretends to be nothing that it isn't. Just a great 'anything goes' type of place & never fails to make you smile & enjoy whatever the weather.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I've just lol-ed so much at the past few posts. There's serious proposals, then fantasy services, and then there's this...

Mine is a serious proposal! I have heard so many people complain saying that Blackpool needs more services, there are 8 platforms going to waste!