Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[SodTheDrummer]

I don't know about anyone else, but I love seeing a 30 year old southern cast off train (319) passing through Bolton! Something with a pan!! Can't wait for the new stock when it eventually arrives.

 

[jonesy3001]

Are the 323s likely to go on the bolton line or will they stick to the glossop/hadfield,south manchester and liverpool chat moss lines?

 

[DJH1971]

Are the 323s likely to go on the bolton line or will they stick to the glossop/hadfield,south manchester and liverpool chat moss lines?

Thought the 323's were going to West Midlands?

This could explain why they have not been repainted.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Thought the 323's were going to West Midlands?

The West Midlands are getting rid of them in exchange for 350's & Aventra's. Their only realistic home is with Northern.

 

[DJH1971]

The West Midlands are getting rid of them in exchange for 350's & Aventra's. Their only realistic home is with Northern.

Slightly off topic to this thread I know, but a bit strange they have not been repainted in the new livery.

 

[jonesy3001]

Slightly off topic to this thread I know, but a bit strange they have not been repainted in the new livery.

The northern ones should go for PRM work in may/june and i'm wondering what colours they'll come back in, old or new.

 

[Mollman]

Slightly off topic to this thread I know, but a bit strange they have not been repainted in the new livery.

Northern don't both admitting ownership of, let alone repaint, anything that they are getting rid of.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Page 323 ...

 

[LDECRexile]

My camera and I had a good day out in the sun today. Photos attached to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

 

[AMD]

Page 323 ...

awaits page 331

 

[Mogster]

As there’s been discussions about the 319s hardly stunning performance, will they actually get anywhere near 100mph on the Preston - Bolton - Manchester route?

 

[Ken H]

As there’s been discussions about the 319s hardly stunning performance, will they actually get anywhere near 100mph on the Preston - Bolton - Manchester route?

I think the 769's will struggle more off the overhead.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I think the 769's will struggle more off the overhead.

That's inevitable given the handicap of carrying diesel engines compared to a 319. Equally we don't actually know that the 769s will work reliably on diesel power full stop. Bi-modes may be seen by some as the saviours of the railways but at this point it's not clear whether conversions, as opposed to new builds, are genuinely viable.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I think the 769's will struggle more off the overhead.

I'm certain they will - diesel = 2 x 390kW per set, electric = 4 × 247.5kW but also lighter by two 6 cylinder diesel generator sets ...

 

[bengley]

As there’s been discussions about the 319s hardly stunning performance, will they actually get anywhere near 100mph on the Preston - Bolton - Manchester route?

Their performance isn't great compared to some EMUs but it's also not bad.

The reason for seemingly slow speeds under Northern is because of the completely ridiculous policy imposed on drivers by the company, insisting they only notch power up to notch 4 at about 45mph. Completely nuts - they managed for 30 years at Thameslink being driven properly.

 

[Llama]

Re the notion that power notch 4 is only to be used at 45mph, I would be interested to know where this has come from.

 

[Geeves]

Think people need to get out on the Bolton line an experience the 319s for themselves. Those speaking of sluggish driving or slow traction, well not that I've experienced, we absolutely flew down there!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Think people need to get out on the Bolton line an experience the 319s for themselves. Those speaking of sluggish driving or slow traction, well not that I've experienced, we absolutely flew down there!

Were you on a stopping service or on the Blackpool express that Northern insist on sticking 319's on?

 

[AM9]

Were you on a stopping service or on the Blackpool express that Northern insist on sticking 319's on?

100mph on the Bolton line is 100mph, wherever the train is going from or to. If they are maintained and driven properly, the 319s will do 100mph, (linespeed permitting).

 

[Mordac]

100mph on the Bolton line is 100mph, wherever the train is going from or to. If they are maintained and driven properly, the 319s will do 100mph, (linespeed permitting).

I think the issue is that on a stopping service they might not have time to reach 100mph before having to slow down for a station.

 

[furnessvale]

I think the issue is that on a stopping service they might not have time to reach 100mph before having to slow down for a station.

Surely the question is, do 319s accelerate faster or slower than the 150s they are replacing?

 

[bengley]

Surely the question is, do 319s accelerate faster or slower than the 150s they are replacing?

Yes, significantly, but not if driven as Northern instruct their drivers to.

 

[31160]

Will there be any planned EMU services from Deansgate to Man Vic or is that just for diversions ECS's etc

 

[furnessvale]

Yes, significantly, but not if driven as Northern instruct their drivers to.

I wonder if those instructions will be modified once new timetables come out realising the potential of these units? At the moment, pushing harder will only mean more waiting time en route.

 

[edwin_m]

Will there be any planned EMU services from Deansgate to Man Vic or is that just for diversions ECS's etc

Transpennine bi-modes will eventually make that journey, presumably in electric mode as far as Victoria.

 

[31160]

Transpennine bi-modes will eventually make that journey, presumably in electric mode as far as Victoria.

Arh right thanks

 

[SansHache]

The first Virgin Class 390 empty stock movement (electric-powered) via Bolton operated earlier this afternoon, 5P93 Longsight to Blackpool North.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O86944/2019/02/28/advanced

Not the best of days for photographs unfortunately. Operated by 11-car 390115.

 

[Mogster]

Yes, significantly, but not if driven as Northern instruct their drivers to.

The issue discussed in the 319 thread was that they take a long distance to reach 100mph. 80-100mph performance is poor apparently.

When TPE 350s were replaced by Northern 319s on the Manchester - WNW route, on my GPS I never saw a 319 reach 100mph on the WCML. The 350s had no problem, their acceleration all the way to 100+mph was very impressive, although they are 110mph units of course.

 

[bengley]

The issue discussed in the 319 thread was that they take a long distance to reach 100mph. 80-100mph performance is poor apparently.

When TPE 350s were replaced by Northern 319s on the Manchester - WNW route, on my GPS I never saw a 319 reach 100mph on the WCML. The 350s had no problem, their acceleration all the way to 100+mph was very impressive, although they are 110mph units of course.

Yes, they do take a long time to reach 100. Leaving West Hampstead on the down fast it would often take until almost Radlett to reach 100mph in a 319, whereas a 700 would do the same by Hendon.

(however on most Northern routes it's the low down acceleration which is more important, I'd argue)

 

[LeylandLen]

The first Virgin Class 390 empty stock movement (electric-powered) via Bolton operated earlier this afternoon, 5P93 Longsight to Blackpool North.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O86944/2019/02/28/advanced

Not the best of days for photographs unfortunately. Operated by 11-car 390115.

Looks like they needed a 1-off ECS working due to cancellation of an earlier inbound service to Blackpool from Euston