Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[PN27]

There are now sections of 100mph running between Bolton and Chorley for trains that can run at 'MU' speeds, for full details, see the Sectional Appendix for LNW (North) here: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...anies/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/

As far as I'm aware, 75mph TSRs are still in force at all locations where the speed limit exceeds 75mph.

 

[absolutelymilk]

There are now sections of 100mph running between Bolton and Chorley for trains that can run at 'MU' speeds, for full details, see the Sectional Appendix for LNW (North) here: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...anies/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/

As far as I'm aware, 75mph TSRs are still in force at all locations where the speed limit exceeds 75mph.

Will these TSRs be lifted once the electrification + testing is complete?

 

[Philip]

Thanks

There are now sections of 100mph running between Bolton and Chorley for trains that can run at 'MU' speeds, for full details, see the Sectional Appendix for LNW (North) here: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...anies/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/

As far as I'm aware, 75mph TSRs are still in force at all locations where the speed limit exceeds 75mph.

Thanks for the link, but I don't have the software to download it. Does any of the Salford to Bolton section have over 75mph running now?

 

[DJH1971]

Any more inkling of when testing could start?

 

[142Pilot]

Thanks


Thanks for the link, but I don't have the software to download it. Does any of the Salford to Bolton section have over 75mph running now?

No.

As of today. There are new differential board up but still bin bagged.

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks for the link, but I don't have the software to download it.

There are PDFs on that link to download. Unfortunately they're one per region and unless they've changed recently the maps aren't searchable, so it's a bit of a trial to locate a particular section.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

There are PDFs on that link to download. Unfortunately they're one per region and unless they've changed recently the maps aren't searchable, so it's a bit of a trial to locate a particular section.

This line is line of route (LOR) NW6001, starts around page 545 of the LNW(N) one.

These versions are only updated online every six months or so.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does any of the Salford to Bolton section have over 75mph running now?

The Sectional Appendix shows 100mph for MU trains on the Down (90mph on the Up) for a couple of miles, roughly from Kearsley station to Burnden Jn (through Farnworth Tunnel).
This pattern then resumes north of the Bolton tunnels through Lostock as far as Chorley station.
For some reason, the limits are inconsistent between the Down and Up lines, often with a 5/10mph differential.
In places the PSR for all trains has gone up to 80mph.
But as noted above, none of this is operational yet, with 75mph TRSs in place.
I expect this will stay until the whole route upgrade is finished.
I suppose the next thing will be whether the new trains (classes 195, 331 and 397) will have MU status (unlike 185s and 390s).

 

[snowball]

Do the Sectional Appendix maps still show a connection between Network Rail and Metrolink at Rochdale that has never existed on the ground since Metrolink reached Rochdale?

 

[takno]

Do the Sectional Appendix maps still show a connection between Network Rail and Metrolink at Rochdale that has never existed on the ground since Metrolink reached Rochdale?

I think it's still marked on there as a "planned" link. Isn't it just a mislabelled reversing siding at this point anyway?

 

[142Pilot]

There is a connection.

It's just got a whopping big sleeper with a stop board attached to it on the rails.

But it's signalled at a turnback. Used more at night than anything else.

 

[superkev]

The Sectional Appendix shows 100mph for MU trains on the Down (90mph on the Up) for a couple of miles, roughly from Kearsley station to Burnden Jn (through Farnworth Tunnel).
This pattern then resumes north of the Bolton tunnels through Lostock as far as Chorley station.
For some reason, the limits are inconsistent between the Down and Up lines, often with a 5/10mph differential.
In places the PSR for all trains has gone up to 80mph.
But as noted above, none of this is operational yet, with 75mph TRSs in place.
I expect this will stay until the whole route upgrade is finished.
I suppose the next thing will be whether the new trains (classes 195, 331 and 397) will have MU status (unlike 185s and 390s).

I suspect Network Rail have no incentive to increase line speeds as it costs them more to maintain. Witness the 70ish limit on the flat and almost straight newly electrified Preston Blackpool and the new cheaper 15mph turnout at Bristol Parkway (highlighted by Modern Railways)
K

 

[swt_passenger]

I suspect Network Rail have no incentive to increase line speeds as it costs them more to maintain. Witness the 70ish limit on the flat and almost straight newly electrified Preston Blackpool and the new cheaper 15mph turnout at Bristol Parkway (highlighted by Modern Railways)
K

Isn’t the suggestion in response to your post here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...fication-progress.83452/page-258#post-3659874
...that Modern Railways are wrong on this, and the 15 mph points lead from the down passenger loop into a 15 mph goods loop, and the down passenger loop entry speed from the down main has actually been increased significantly?

 

[jyte]

Ohmygod I'm sick of the discussion over that sodding 15mph turnout/switch already.

 

[snowball]

There is a connection.

It's just got a whopping big sleeper with a stop board attached to it on the rails.

But it's signalled at a turnback. Used more at night than anything else.

This seeems to be one of those unkillable urban myths.

You obviously haven't tried to look at it from the Metrolink end. There is just no track there. If the sleeper and stop board were removed, the track from the Network Rail end would still be a dead-end siding.

In a previous incarnation of this discussion, I posted a link to a Metrolink cab video published by the Manchester Evening News on the eve of the public opening of the Metrolink Rochdale line. There is no link. The Metrolink line has no points for a link, and is at a higher level than NR's siding.

No doubt a link was proposed at an early stage in the Metrolink planning but dropped before being built.

If the Sectional Appendix now shows a siding then it has been corrected since the previous discussion. Quail/Trackmaps 2013 shows a link.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I suspect Network Rail have no incentive to increase line speeds as it costs them more to maintain. Witness the 70ish limit on the flat and almost straight newly electrified Preston Blackpool and the new cheaper 15mph turnout at Bristol Parkway (highlighted by Modern Railways)
K

It's a combination of station locations, track geometry, track construction, gradient, train performance, driveability, signal sighting, braking curves, headway and overlap requirements, and budget. All quite straightforward really. There really isn't a good reason to have both directions the same speed, workers should just assume the higher one for SSoWP. The Preston Manchester speed profile is possibly one of the best optimised ones, vide trains already arriving early regularly to Crescent from the north, and those changes aren't even signed yet.

 

[PN27]

This seeems to be one of those unkillable urban myths.

You obviously haven't tried to look at it from the Metrolink end. There is just no track there. If the sleeper and stop board were removed, the track from the Network Rail end would still be a dead-end siding.

In a previous incarnation of this discussion, I posted a link to a Metrolink cab video published by the Manchester Evening News on the eve of the public opening of the Metrolink Rochdale line. There is no link. The Metrolink line has no points for a link, and is at a higher level than NR's siding.

No doubt a link was proposed at an early stage in the Metrolink planning but dropped before being built.

If the Sectional Appendix now shows a siding then it has been corrected since the previous discussion. Quail/Trackmaps 2013 shows a link.

The Sectional Appendix shows an ownership change between Metrolink and Network Rail on that siding. There are also stop boards marked with 'MET' signal ID plates on the ground. From that, I think it's reasonable to conclude that the far end of the siding is owned and operated by Metrolink. Network Rail therefore shows the ownership boundary and 'To Manchester Metrolink'; what happens beyond the ownership boundary isn't NR's problem.

The Preston Manchester speed profile is possibly one of the best optimised ones, vide trains already arriving early regularly to Crescent from the north, and those changes aren't even signed yet.

Early arrivals into Crescent can be explained by the recovery time most trains have built in to the schedule between Bolton and Salford, and the fact that the entry to the platform from the Up Bolton is now approach released from yellow as opposed to the previous approach released from red. If you get a clear run, the approach to Crescent is noticeably faster. On the downside, they still haven't removed the 60mph TSR for Bradshaw Fields foot crossing...

 

[Joseph_Locke]

... and the fact that the entry to the platform from the Up Bolton is now approach released from yellow as opposed to the previous approach released from red. If you get a clear run, the approach to Crescent is noticeably faster.

I know, I was involved in proposing the changes.

 

[Ianno87]

It's a combination of station locations, track geometry, track construction, gradient, train performance, driveability, signal sighting, braking curves, headway and overlap requirements, and budget. All quite straightforward really. There really isn't a good reason to have both directions the same speed, workers should just assume the higher one for SSoWP. The Preston Manchester speed profile is possibly one of the best optimised ones, vide trains already arriving early regularly to Crescent from the north, and those changes aren't even signed yet.

And even if you did up the Blackpool line speed from 70 to (say) 80/90, I bet the journey time saving doesn't amount to much, especially given the slow curve through Poulton and about half of services stopping at Kirkham.

 

[LDECRexile]

And even if you did up the Blackpool line speed from 70 to (say) 80/90, I bet the journey time saving doesn't amount to much, especially given the slow curve through Poulton and about half of services stopping at Kirkham.

From memory it's about 14 miles from Fylde Junction to Poulton. The table below shows the time it would take to go from one to t'other at the average speeds shown:

20mph 42 mins
30mph 28 mins (14 mins better)
40mph 21 mins (7 mins better)
50mph 17 mins (4 mins better)
60mph 14 mins (3 mins better)
70mph 12 mins (2 mins better)
80mph 10m 30s (1m 30s better)
90mph 9m 20s (1m 10s better)
100mph 8m 24s (56s better)

Today's 1P91 06:46 Euston to Blackpool North Pendolino was booked to take 14m 30s pass to pass Preston Fylde Jct - Poulton, averaging just less than 60mph.

Poulton is on a right angled bend, it and Fylde Jct are effectively unspeedupable.

Raising the average speed between the two to 80mph would require maxima well over that and shave slightly more than 3m 30s off the journey time.

 

[childwallblues]

Thank you.

 

[reg]

Bolton-plenty of activity this morning, mainly to do with the ongoing drainage work on platform 5 track.Some (but not all)temporary fixtures on the wiring runs have now been replaced with permanent fittings.Incidentally,the timetable for the early hours of November 1st and 2nd makes interesting reading, with runs scheduled between ManVic and Preston RES and ManVic to Buckshaw.Photos to follow

 

[Muenchener]

Anyone know what this morning's working was for that arrived BON at 01:11 hrs? Heard it pass but didn't see it.

 

[reg]

Engineers train on ballast duties ,currently parked up at Bolton station.The old ballast from platform 5 drainage works was loaded this morning, new ballast also on board as the work continues.

 

[Muenchener]

Engineers train on ballast duties ,currently parked up at Bolton station.The old ballast from platform 5 drainage works was loaded this morning, new ballast also on board as the work continues.

Thanks Reg. I guessed it was a bit more than a tamper...

 

[Trackman]

Apparently something to do with tensioning at Farnworth today

 

[iandavid59]

Rumour has it Rail Replacement will carry on till December 23rd for Manchester to Preston so work can continue at Weekends.

 

[thealexweb]

Rumour has it Rail Replacement will carry on till December 23rd for Manchester to Preston so work can continue at Weekends.

Classic Network Rail.

 

[LDECRexile]

Bolton-plenty of activity this morning, mainly to do with the ongoing drainage work on platform 5 track.Some (but not all)temporary fixtures on the wiring runs have now been replaced with permanent fittings.Incidentally,the timetable for the early hours of November 1st and 2nd makes interesting reading, with runs scheduled between ManVic and Preston RES and ManVic to Buckshaw.Photos to follow

… and here they are:

added to Reg's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157671732263863

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Reg.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Rumour has it Rail Replacement will carry on till December 23rd for Manchester to Preston so work can continue at Weekends.

How good is the source of this rumor?