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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

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Bertie the bus

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Specifically, does anyone know when it is hoped to restore York-Blackpool North and Lime St-Blackpool North?
York - Blackpool is no more. It isn't a casuality of the temporary timetable. It might return in December but based on what Northern have done, i.e. keep a stopping service between Leeds and York in the original path but start it from Manchester, and have the return run as a York - Huddersfield via Brighouse, I'm really not confident in the slightest York - Blackpool will return in the short term, if at all.
 
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Muenchener

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Does anyone know how Northern's driver training programme is going?

Does anyone know how Northern intend to restore full services, eg Big Bang or in phases? Does anyone know when this/these are aimed to take place?

Specifically, does anyone know when it is hoped to restore York-Blackpool North and Lime St-Blackpool North?
For what it's worth; the Bolton corridor appears to be bustituted each weekend continuing to end Jul. Weekend of 4/5th Aug apparently is being run with trains. There's novel; put the flags out...
 

Muenchener

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York - Blackpool is no more. It isn't a casuality of the temporary timetable. It might return in December but based on what Northern have done, i.e. keep a stopping service between Leeds and York in the original path but start it from 9Manchester, and have the return run as a York - Huddersfield via Brighouse, I'm really not confident in the slightest York - Blackpool will return in the short term, if at all.
From what I can see; it still remains a "Northern Connect" route. Likelihood is that it will be reinstated come Dec 18. Unless anyone else knows different...
 

Bertie the bus

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Having a coloured line on a map means nothing. Franchise commitments aren't real world commitments - just look at what happened with TPE's commitment to use the Mk 3s.
 

The Planner

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The removal of this train is stupid...Why?....Because it has been through last 15 years I have known it,been a popular train for those punters who want to take a train from BPN to both the North Lancs stations and also for what has been a growing traffic flow to Halifax and Bradford,WITHOUT A CHANGE OF TRAIN....I feel the so called timetable planners are amateurs and not as in the past professional railwaymen?....And to change at Preston is not very clever as the trains from BPN and the new trains to Colne ,and Leeds etc will all go from Plat 1 and 2 which is not very clever as limited room etc....Oh well they know better ????
You make the assumption that we design the services.....
 

The_Engineer

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The removal of this train is stupid...Why?....Because it has been through last 15 years I have known it,been a popular train for those punters who want to take a train from BPN to both the North Lancs stations and also for what has been a growing traffic flow to Halifax and Bradford,WITHOUT A CHANGE OF TRAIN....I feel the so called timetable planners are amateurs and not as in the past professional railwaymen?....And to change at Preston is not very clever as the trains from BPN and the new trains to Colne ,and Leeds etc will all go from Plat 1 and 2 which is not very clever as limited room etc....Oh well they know better ????
That's a rather thoughtless rant, many people involved in these timetables contribute here and are very professional. You probably have no idea of all the circumstances that caused their reluctant cutting short of the York to Blackpools at Preston. Much of which was OUTSIDE Northern's control. I have no reason to believe that their promise to re-instate it, after the Manchester to Preston line goes live and a new timetable is introduced, will not be kept.

Think twice, post once....
 

Bertie the bus

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You probably have no idea of all the circumstances that caused their reluctant cutting short of the York to Blackpools at Preston.
So what were the circumstances that caused their "reluctant" cutting short of the service at Leeds and their "reluctant" timing of it so it just misses the Northern service to York?
I have no reason to believe that their promise to re-instate it, after the Manchester to Preston line goes live and a new timetable is introduced, will not be kept.
I suppose you're right. They've not kept a promise yet so they must be due to keep at least one.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Having a coloured line on a map means nothing. Franchise commitments aren't real world commitments - just look at what happened with TPE's commitment to use the Mk 3s.
We don't know if there is any penalty on TPE for not introducing the Mk3s.
But then NR has inflicted problems on TPE so it's not all one way.
DfT generally does not forget a shortfall on a contract, it usually gets its pound of flesh somehow.
It might not benefit passengers, though.
 

IanXC

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York - Blackpool is no more. It isn't a casuality of the temporary timetable. It might return in December but based on what Northern have done, i.e. keep a stopping service between Leeds and York in the original path but start it from Manchester, and have the return run as a York - Huddersfield via Brighouse, I'm really not confident in the slightest York - Blackpool will return in the short term, if at all.

If we take the original version of the May timetable that appeared on RTT etc for a short time, as what Northern intend to do - which would seem a very good view to take then there will indeed be a Blackpool North to York, which will only call at Church Fenton between Leeds and York in both directions. That means the time the stopping service departs Leeds is really neither here nor there in terms of York regaining its link to Blackpool North.
 

nw-sparks

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For what it's worth; the Bolton corridor appears to be bustituted each weekend continuing to end Jul. Weekend of 4/5th Aug apparently is being run with trains. There's novel; put the flags out...

According to National Rail's future engineering works the lines are closed each weekend until 19 August. They keep adding another announcement for one more weekend, presumably in the hope that no-one will notice the blockade getting longer and longer!
 

geoffk

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From what I can see; it still remains a "Northern Connect" route. Likelihood is that it will be reinstated come Dec 18. Unless anyone else knows different...
I assumed that curtailing the service to run Leeds - Preston was a temporary arrangement as it was always busy with a lot of through Blackpool traffic. The local user group of which I'm a member has campaigned for this service to call at Sowerby Bridge and we were surprised to see that stops have been added at Mytholmroyd and Bramley. It makes sense to use an electric unit from Blackpool as there is a shortage of diesel stock. I thought I read that eventually the Leeds - York stopper would be a self-contained service and the Blackpool would run fast.
 

LDECRexile

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If we take the original version of the May timetable that appeared on RTT etc for a short time, as what Northern intend to do - which would seem a very good view to take then there will indeed be a Blackpool North to York, which will only call at Church Fenton between Leeds and York in both directions. That means the time the stopping service departs Leeds is really neither here nor there in terms of York regaining its link to Blackpool North.

Before the fertiliser hit the fan I heard talk of the York-Blackpool North service being shortened to Leeds-Blackpool North, but heard no talk of it being abandoned. As you say, during the fertiliser period it ran or was cancelled as an emergency measure, ie it was intended to run. I have a soft spot for this service, I commuted on it from Halifax to Blackburn for two and a half years in the mid 1990s. I was late twice, on one of these the roads were blocked by snow, too. Halifax is a notable example of rail provision back from the dead. When we moved there at Christmas 1984 it had two services, Leeds-Manchester and Summer Saturdays Bradford-Poole, the sole train which kept the bank at Salterhebble from being lifted. That throwback to an earlier age ended at the end of the 1985 season. There was talk of singling along the Calder Valley and all sorts of rationalisation.

Things stuttered along until the early 1990s when two Building Societies merged and asked BR if a service could be delivered to connect Bradford and Burnley. This became the Scarborough-Blackpool North, later cut back to York-Blackpool North; two decent services through Halifax. At the end of the 20th Century Salterhebble Bank came back to life when Brighouse was rebuilt and Leeds-Huddersfield via Halifax began; three decent services through Halifax. We left the area in 2001, but since then Grand Central have provided direct trains to Kings Cross; four decent services through Halifax. There is now talk of building a turnback siding for a Leeds-Halifax shuttle.
 

LDECRexile

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According to National Rail's future engineering works the lines are closed each weekend until 19 August. They keep adding another announcement for one more weekend, presumably in the hope that no-one will notice the blockade getting longer and longer!

I expect the route to be train-free at weekends until electrification is completed and the line open in full in December. NR are committed to December, not merely on a promise, but heads-will-roll-if-not. There may be the odd weekend where trains will run, if there is a big event in Manchester, for example.

Recent progress makes me more confident that December is "on", but Yarrow Viaduct worries me.
 

LDECRexile

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Good News

Bill Morton has followed yesterday's good news from Aggers (Adlington) with the following about Yarrow viaduct:

"Went to Yarrow Viaduct this morn. 2 pairs of brackets fixed either side of the viaduct. All paraphernalia cabins, ropes etc; have been removed which suggests to me that that aspect of the work is complete and awaiting erection of two portals."

I'm badgering him for photos, but it sounds heartening.
 

59CosG95

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Good News

Bill Morton has followed yesterday's good news from Aggers (Adlington) with the following about Yarrow viaduct:

"Went to Yarrow Viaduct this morn. 2 pairs of brackets fixed either side of the viaduct. All paraphernalia cabins, ropes etc; have been removed which suggests to me that that aspect of the work is complete and awaiting erection of two portals."

I'm badgering him for photos, but it sounds heartening.
Very heartening indeed - almost as heartening as the fact that I ended up passing my final year, and am due to graduate in July with a 2:1 in Civil & Railway Engineering!
The railway industry now awaits...
 

LDECRexile

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Muenchener

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I expect the route to be train-free at weekends until electrification is completed and the line open in full in December. NR are committed to December, not merely on a promise, but heads-will-roll-if-not. There may be the odd weekend where trains will run, if there is a big event in Manchester, for example.

Recent progress makes me more confident that December is "on", but Yarrow Viaduct worries me.
"Committed to Dec" but likelihood is of a service sooner (see my post #7487 above). Accepting track record not good to date. Lol. I also believe heads are already likely to have rolled hence the impetus and focus the remaining project delivery milestones are getting. Possibly good news on Yarrow viaduct earlier. That may well free things up for further acceleration to complete by early Aug. In effect; when the major civils are completed the stringing of the wires could be done in a mid-week possession between 00:00 and 04:30 as required.
 

LDECRexile

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"Committed to Dec" but likelihood is of a service sooner (see my post #7487 above). Accepting track record not good to date. Lol. I also believe heads are already likely to have rolled hence the impetus and focus the remaining project delivery milestones are getting. Possibly good news on Yarrow viaduct earlier. That may well free things up for further acceleration to complete by early Aug. In effect; when the major civils are completed the stringing of the wires could be done in a mid-week possession between 00:00 and 04:30 as required.

I hope you are right. Almost everyone on this thread is rootin' for it to happen asap, not least because many of us talk with professional Orangemen on sites who are far from incompetent layabouts just out to get extra overtime. Snides who enjoy pointing sarcy fingers and gloating stray onto here every now and again, but they wither when not granted the oxygen of replies.

re Yarrow Viaduct, please see #7669, on this page, above. Bill has promised to send me photos as proof!
 

HowardGWR

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Very heartening indeed - almost as heartening as the fact that I ended up passing my final year, and am due to graduate in July with a 2:1 in Civil & Railway Engineering!
The railway industry now awaits...
Echoed! What LDEC wrote.
 

snowball

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Googling "Yarrow viaduct" finds this page. Unfortunately it doesn't describe the results of the survey:

http://www.neary.co.uk/projects-info/82

Neary Rail recently completed 2 orders under our LNW Civils Framework to carry out intrusive hidden void investigation works at Cowburn Viaduct, near Edale and River Yarrow Viaduct, near Chorley.
Network Rail supplied a desk top survey which had indicated that hidden voids may be present in both structures and therefore required an intrusive survey to be carried out by Neary Rail.
The scope of works involved EA/LA liaison, as both viaducts cross rivers, the provision of high level access to the arch, pier and spandrel areas, core drilling of the structures at predetermined locations to depths of up to 2.5m, undertaking a CCTV survey of all cored holes, reporting on our findings and making good of the structures on completion.
At Cowburn Viaduct, a temporary bridge and tube clamp handrails were installed to allow staff to access the East abutment, with high level access to other areas provided by scaffold towers and a telehandler with personnel basket. Traffic Management was utilised to allow access to the West abutment. 95 percent of the drilling works at Cowburn Viaduct were carried out in house, with a specialist drilling contractor used for a small number of cores over 2.5m in length.
At River Yarrow, high level access was provided by scaffold towers, with all coring works carried out by a specialist drilling contractor.
 

Geeves

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Every time I see this thread its pretty good news recently, I hope the viaduct works will turn out to be sorted too.

Platform 2 at Victoria now has a couple of interesting looking single track cantilevers which I've not seen before. No dangly bits yet.
 

LDECRexile

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As promised, Bill Morton has sent shots of the mast support structures (in effect, mast bases) on Yarrow Viaduct. The final set up appears to be a base for a TTC towards the northern end of the viaduct and a pair of bases, possibly to support a portal, towards the southern end.

I've added Bill's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157650900509369

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Bill.
 

LDECRexile

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Googling "Yarrow viaduct" finds this page. Unfortunately it doesn't describe the results of the survey:

http://www.neary.co.uk/projects-info/82

Yet another of your fine finds, thank you.

It appears that talk of a void was not ridiculous, but as with all Chinese Whispers it was distorted, in this case from "might be a large void" to "is a large void."

As traffic still whizzes across at line speed and the mast bases appear done and dusted I'm betting your pensions that demolishing the viaduct and rebuilding it won't be needed before the December timetable change.
 

59CosG95

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Noticed today that the 25kV feeder is raised off the ground as it passes under Anderton Hall footbridge, but only on the northbound side. The other side remains at ground level. Any idea why?

I'll bet my combined volume that a lack of clearance for the ATF/25kV Feeder, added with poor ground conditions (hence no burial) is the reason why.
 
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