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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

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LDECRexile

LDECRexile

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I've had two helpful emails from ALX400 about the Moses Gate problems. He wrote:

"I'm going to try and get there this weekend, there's talk of all the recent rain possibly causing a landslip and some movement. My sister lives near there and everyone reported loud bangs, apparently from the bridge dropping. A lot of orange army downed tools at Bolton and have gone to Moses Gate apparently. No doubt it'll get sorted but what it means for the remodelling at Bolton goodness knows, I suppose at least the rail replacements could possibly be kept going for more time if required."

...and later he continued...

"There's an image of the bridge on the NR twitter feed, it says they will carry out emergency repairs tonight."

Thank you ALX.
 
LDECRexile

LDECRexile

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Bullfield WEst said:
From what I've seen there appears to be no provision for Electrification of P5. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Photo 6920k shows a peg marking the proposed location of a mast south of the station on the Platform 5 route; items such as these have often been referred to as "scrapes" on this thread.

Photo 6864m shows a peg marking the proposed location of a mast north of the station on the Platform 5 route.

I know of no photographs showing such things between.

Whilst it is possible that the people responsible for electrifying the line and reinstating Platform 5 might have forgotten to make provision for supporting the wires along the platform itself, I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

This film has been posted on and referred to on this thread:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...h-west-electrification/manchester-to-preston/

a close look at the Bolton station section shows the top of at least one mast next to Platform 5.
 
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Joseph_Locke

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There most definitely will be, and its STCs on the west side IIRC, but I'd suggest that getting the track in first is exactly the right thing to do; the platform copings, then the STC bases, then the monster ATF duct route, then the infill canopy section, then the masts and wires. The bases and onwards can all be done after the blockade.

Even if P5 wasn't wired for operational reasons, the over-run provision would extend to north of Orlando Street bridge anyway (it is a very curious calculation) so by time you'd brought it out of running and anchored it you'd be in the platform ...
 
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Bullfield WEst

Bullfield WEst

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Joseph_Locke said:
There most definitely will be, and its STCs on the west side IIRC, but I'd suggest that getting the track in first is exactly the right thing to do; the platform copings, then the STC bases, then the monster ATF duct route, then the infill canopy section, then the masts. and wires The bases and onwards can all be done after the blockade.

Even if P5 wasn't wired for operational reasons, the over-run provision would extend to north Orlando Street bridge anyway (it is a very curious calculation) so by time you'd brought it out of running and anchored it you'd be in the platform ...
Click to expand...

Yes, I had missed something. Thanks for the replies.
 
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wrinkley

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I had a chat to an engineer at Moses Gate this morning, this is the situation as I understand it.

The bridge and parapets have not moved and are sound.

They have put targets on the abutment on the Down line to check for any possible future movement. I could see that one piece of stone is missing from the bottom of the abutment at the edge and the cement has been washed out from some of the surrounding stone.

The main problem is the retaining wall on the Down line side. There is a brickwork above the stonework at the top wall, this is cracked and has moved. There is still some water coming through the wall. UU are putting in some form of wall to stop any further water getting into the embankment, this should be done by tonight, Buckinghams cannot start work until this has been done.

Buckinghams will remove the brick wall and do repairs to the stone retaining wall and abutment. The soil will be re-graded to meet the stone wall, much of it has already been washed away. They will probably nail the soil as on the adjoining embankment.

There is still some sandy debris on the track under the bridge, from where I could see it, the ballast looks to be still in place.

There was a short engineering train in the station which moved off back towards Bolton. I think that this was more to do with the Bolton work that Moses Gate.

I was able to get some decent photos of the damage which Dave will load on to the website as soon as he can.
 
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55z

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New speed limits from 27th August, 2017 (or there abouts) include 90 or 100 mph from near Kearlsey to near Bolton for MU only (multiple Units) 90/95/100 mph from around Dean Clough overbridge to near Chorley for MU only, there are some minor speed changes for other trains.
 
Joseph_Locke

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55z said:
New speed limits from 27th August, 2017 ... for MU only (multiple Units) 90/95/100 mph from around Dean Clough overbridge to near Chorley for MU only,
Click to expand...
So not 185s.

there are some minor speed changes for other trains.
Click to expand...
I doubt that will make up for it ...

include 90 or 100 mph from near Kearsley to near Bolton for MU only.
Click to expand...
This sounds like more is to come, because I doubt much will get from 75 at Kearsley to 100 and then back to 20 through Bolton. This bit of increase is almost certainly because it is what Bolton is designed to accommodate, rather being the final answer, and it's easiest just to do it all in one go.
 
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Joseph_Locke

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Re: 8116m - yes, when someone can justify it*. The Bolton - Moses Gate area has been designed to allow it to "drop in" later.


*There is currently no freight with contractual rights booked to operate between Euxton and Agecroft North, acknowledging it's usefulness as a diversion.
 
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Ploughman

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At least the bridge has not moved.
Bet there were some worried people about that.
When we were doing the Leeds NW at Bingley around 1993 we had a track lower through the road bridge just north of the station.
We were accused by the contractors of relaying the track high and we would have to go back in and re do the lowering.
We checked all measurements and it turned out that the bridge had sunk due to the adjacent dewatering scheme being carried out to move the Leeds Liverpool Canal.
Bridge had to be jacked up instead and not the track.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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55z said:
New speed limits from 27th August, 2017 (or there abouts) include 90 or 100 mph from near Kearlsey to near Bolton for MU only (multiple Units) 90/95/100 mph from around Dean Clough overbridge to near Chorley for MU only, there are some minor speed changes for other trains.
Click to expand...

So no practical change then, as if the few 185s on the route can't use the differentials, there is no other MU stock capable of exceeding 75mph at the moment.
 
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snowball

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Platform 5 is shown as bi-di, but unless there's another crossover off the map to the north, there seems to be no way a southbound train can get to it from either the Preston or Blackburn lines. Perhaps it's for turning round shuttles from Manchester?
 
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LNW-GW Joint said:
So no practical change then, as if the few 185s on the route can't use the differentials, there is no other MU stock capable of exceeding 75mph at the moment.
Click to expand...

But within a couple of years the route will see 319s, 331s and possibly 195s too, all of which are capable of 100mph.
 
driver9000

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edwin_m said:
But within a couple of years the route will see 319s, 331s and possibly 195s too, all of which are capable of 100mph.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Transpennine Anglo-Scottish services will also be rerouted via Bolton when the wires go live so 397s will be regulars too.
 
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wrinkley

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LNW-GW Joint said:
So no practical change then, as if the few 185s on the route can't use the differentials, there is no other MU stock capable of exceeding 75mph at the moment.
Click to expand...

Am I being a bit thick, I thought that 185s are multiple units, if so why are they not allowed to use the new speed limits.
 
Joseph_Locke

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wrinkley said:
Am I being a bit thick, I thought that 185s are multiple units, if so why are they not allowed to use the new speed limits.
Click to expand...

If it looks like a DMU, sounds like a DMU and operates like a DMU, it is a DMU (unless its a 185). :lol:

Apparently, despite being RA5 (same as a class 43 - an HST can run as MU) it isn't allowed to operate at the MU speeds. A 350 can, but a 185 can't. Rolling Stock Acceptance Board (RSAB) have spoken.

edit: if you read "heavy" for "fat" then Msr. Planner he speak true (but only 18.5t per axle)

See page 14 of the current LNWN sectional appendix, available Network Rail's website
 
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C

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LDECRexile said:
An Orangeman has kindly sent an authoritative layout-to-be for the Bolton remodelling.

I've added it to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Citric Gentleman.
Click to expand...

Joseph_Locke said:
... is the right answer. You can turn back south off any platform.
Click to expand...

Surely the facing crossover jsut inside the layout would have been better moving the other side (towards Chorley) to Platform 5 to be bi-directional in all directions?
 
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wrinkley said:
Am I being a bit thick, I thought that 185s are multiple units, if so why are they not allowed to use the new speed limits.
Click to expand...

The Planner said:
Because they are fat boys and not allowed to use differentials.
Click to expand...

Joseph_Locke said:
If it looks like a DMU, sounds like a DMU and operates like a DMU, it is a DMU (unless its a 185). :lol:

Apparently, despite being RA5 (same as a class 43 - an HST can run as MU) it isn't allowed to operate at the MU speeds. A 350 can, but a 185 can't. Rolling Stock Acceptance Board (RSAB) have spoken.

edit: if you read "heavy" for "fat" then Msr. Planner he speak true (but only 18.5t per axle)

See page 14 of the current LNWN sectional appendix, available Network Rail's website
Click to expand...

I am surprised that 185s aren't allowed to use the MU Differentais. I knew about the ban on use of SP ones for Class 185s though. Are they really that bad on track when compared to HSTs (or even 350s mentioned above)?
 
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